| Name: |
Bob
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| Subject: |
Cat or anyone with sense about marine engines help
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Date:
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5/16/2011 4:17:55 PM
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So I just got my bills for summerization. My Cobalt 220 was a grand total of only 81 bucks by Blue Creek Marina...my Seadoo was freaking $294 by the Ridge Marina. WTH? How can it be that much to summerize a seadoo.
Breakdown as follows from the Ridge:
1.60 hours to "summerize seadoo"
1 hour to "R &R sparkplugs"
This and a small charge for the plugs all adds up to $294! Now I don't know jack about this stuff so am I wrong to draw conclusions about the costs to summerize a boat verus a seadoo? Can it really take 1.6 hours to drain fluid and flush a seadoo. Can it really take an hour to change plugs???
Cat I know we have sparred a few times but this one I know you are the expert...I would love your opinion...anyone else too...it just seems awful high to me...
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| Name: |
Summer Lover
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| Subject: |
Cat or anyone with sense about marine engines help
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Date:
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5/16/2011 4:41:00 PM
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They hit you hard with that one... I would ask for an itemized bill or list of what was done - did you change oil/oil filter/coolant when you winterized? As far as the plugs are concerned, maybe they thought the seat was locked and had to get to them through the exhaust....
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| Name: |
Ulysses E. McGill
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| Subject: |
Cat or anyone with sense about marine engines help
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Date:
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5/16/2011 5:29:02 PM (updated 5/16/2011 5:58:58 PM)
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In my opinion, "summerization" is a term for something marina's have developed to increase revenue from those that don't know what their machines really need. In the spring, your battery may need charged or put back in the machine. If your oil wasn't changed with winterization, that may need done. If your spark plugs are old, a new set may be needed. Know what is needed and when (see your owners manual), then ask for those services. I winterize my own equipment, and it is all ready for summer when I'm done (minus putting the battery back in).
BTW, I can change the plugs in both my waverunners in under 10 minutes. Same for the ski boat I recently sold and I could change the oil in 15 minutes after paying about $20 for the oil and filter. Batteries take about 5 minutes each to remove or install.
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| Name: |
Mack
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| Subject: |
Cat or anyone with sense about marine engines help
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Date:
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5/16/2011 5:56:41 PM
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So ? They got cha'. Give them a shot in person or on the phone and make a note Never to go back.
BTW, boat mechanic charges per hour have to be in the area fo $80-90 an hour. I would say that the deal you got at Blue Creek was a bargain.
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| Name: |
Jural
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| Subject: |
Cat or anyone with sense about marine engines help
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Date:
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5/16/2011 7:09:38 PM
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It does not take that long. They are dinging you on labor hours which is obvious. It is a simple task that they should have down to a few minutes. Change plugs, flush, next customer. Ask if they have video cameras in their shop area. If so, ask to see the work done. I know AMS does and they are happy to show you their work.
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| Name: |
Casey
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| Subject: |
Jural
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Date:
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5/16/2011 7:29:52 PM
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I'm sure this is a "duh" question. Who is AMS?
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| Name: |
Jural
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| Subject: |
Jural
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Date:
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5/16/2011 7:38:14 PM
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American Motor Sports on 280.
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| Name: |
lakeplumber
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| Subject: |
Not taking sides here, but....
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Date:
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5/16/2011 8:14:06 PM
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If the work required was simple and did not take long to do, then why did you not do it yourself? I suspect that they might have done many things in the "process" that cost money that you are unaware of.
I had a light come on my dashboard indicating a problem with an airbag. Took it to the dealer and he hooked up the machine to diagnose the problem ($95.00) in 2 minutes.Bad sensor ($10.00). 5 minutes. Total $105.00 for 7 minutes of work and a 10 dollar part. Did I complain? not really. I did not own the diagnostic machine to determine the fault, but he did. He has to pay for the diagnosis tools to fix my vehicle.
Not saying that he had to do this but I'm sure that he checked some things for you that involved the use of tools and equipment that cost him bucks. He has to recover his investment in his assets to make a profit.
Like it or not this is capitalism, it is what we all believe in (hopefully) and practice in this country. That is unless your business is a charity.
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| Name: |
Bob
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| Subject: |
Not taking sides here, but....
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Date:
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5/16/2011 8:48:30 PM
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I got the itemized bill...
2.6 hours to "summerize" and change plugs. This is literally drain and flush and charge battery, then plugs. The darn Seadoo is ONE YEAR old so any "extra" stuff would have been under warranty. I have always liked the Ridge but this is just confusing as to how it could take this long but since I don't know I want opinions...CAT...where are you? Come on Man your time to shine and show me expertise in an area you would literally run circles around me :)
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| Name: |
lakeplumber
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| Subject: |
Not taking sides here, but....
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Date:
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5/16/2011 9:51:45 PM
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I take it that you tried to discuss (negotiate) the bill?
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| Name: |
Weatherly
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| Subject: |
Cat or anyone with sense about marine engines help
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Date:
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5/16/2011 9:59:07 PM
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I sent you an email on this subject.
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| Name: |
wix
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| Subject: |
You been had.
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Date:
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5/16/2011 10:39:46 PM
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
Cat or anyone with sense about marine engines help
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Date:
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5/16/2011 11:50:51 PM
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I think you should go back to the Ridge Marina and ask for an explanation of exactly what all they did -- specifics and not generalities -- and if the answer is not satisfactory just tell them straight yp that you are throwing the Bu!!$#it flag, and unless they credit you something on the bill you will never darken their doors again, and will let the forum know what they didn't do for that kind of money.
Accountability is a powerful weapon, and if they know that their intransigence is publicized through this forum I'd bet they will see the errors in their billing.
Good luck....and IMHO summerizing means putting in a fresh battery, cranking it, and hitting the throttle!!
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
BTW
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Date:
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5/16/2011 11:52:57 PM
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As others have said, if it takes more than 10 minutes to change the plugs, fire the mechanic and hire just about any swinging Richard that posts on this forum.....:>)
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| Name: |
Maverick
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| Subject: |
Cat or anyone with sense about marine engines help
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Date:
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5/17/2011 12:07:39 AM
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Bob:
I pay $215.00 for 2 Sea Doos to be winterized and then summarized, so about $107.50 each and that is alot, but the way I look at it is if the engine has freeze damage not my problem, cheap insurance. Plus my mechanic is always willing to take my call and help me out in a pinch.
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| Name: |
Bob
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| Subject: |
Cat or anyone with sense about marine engines help
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Date:
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5/17/2011 6:53:35 AM
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Guys you have all been very helpful and thanks to Weatherly for the personal email saying much of the same. I am worried about CAT though, this topic had his name all over it...Cat, let us know you are ok please even if you choose not to respond.
The bottom line is it seems that the experts on the baord feel like a change of spark plugs and a drain and flush should take less than 2.6 hours and not cost $300...I will go back to them and see what they say and report back to everyone. They have been reasonable in the past and I bought the Seadoo there...keep the thoughts coming.
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| Name: |
Pontoonfisher
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| Subject: |
Cat or anyone with sense about marine engines help
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Date:
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5/17/2011 7:17:35 AM
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Summerizing, what a joke!!! What's next, mid-summerizing??? Most of these mechanics are crooks who prey on people b/c of there ignorance. It's the same with every service these days. You pay out the ying yang for shotty service, even for simple stuff. You did get the shaft on that one. They do it b/c they can. Most people just pay without question. It's worth the risk to tick a few off to get the majority to blindly pay.
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| Name: |
Rooster
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| Subject: |
Cat or anyone with sense about marine engines help
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Date:
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5/17/2011 8:09:19 AM
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Next time use CAT or Clearwater Marine- both good honest folks. You will not be impressed with Clearwater's shop- you will be with their service.
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| Name: |
HP HQ
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| Subject: |
Cat or anyone with sense about marine engines help
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Date:
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5/17/2011 8:39:32 AM
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I know I might take a beating over this post, but there are a few things I would like to say about this. At my shop we charge an honest hour for an hour, but people tend to forget that there are things that go along with the job more than just doing the job, ie moving the boat, uncovering the boat, moving customers stuff they have piled by the motor etc. So sure it might be a ten minute job once we finally get there. I will say your bill does seem high, but at their rate of 125hr it can add up quick. Also another note, these newer PWCs are not as easy to change plugs as the older PWCs, Yamahas for example, you have to remove the top off the intake, then remove pencil coils, then plugs. I charge hr per on those. Jeff
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| Name: |
AUTiger97
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| Subject: |
Cat or anyone with sense about marine engines help
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Date:
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5/17/2011 9:46:48 AM
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I have dealt with Kowliga and Anchor Bay which are both sister marinas of The Ridge and Blue Creek. Both had up front rates for summerization of various types of boats and PWC. The form on Kowliga's website states $147.00 for PWC. I believe the cost of parts/chemicals/fluids is probably extra (if required). The scope of work listed is "Battery charge, replace drain plugs, check fluids, safety check (bilge pump, blower, horn, lighta and fire extinguisher) and lake test".
I agree that all this could be done DIY in an afternoon, one handed (other hand occupied with beverage of your choice). But some people don't have the time or are not confident in their handywork enough to depend on it out on the water.
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| Name: |
CAT BOAT
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| Subject: |
Cat or anyone with sense about marine engines help
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Date:
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5/17/2011 9:50:50 AM (updated 5/17/2011 10:00:12 AM)
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I don't have time to read all the responses, but I will attemp to help. When your boat was winterized, maybe they changed the fluids, filters, fogged the engine, drained water,etc. And all they had to do was put the drain plugs in the engine and crank it. Prolly would take them 1/2 hour or so. Now, the Sea Doo may be a different story. Is it one of those Hot Rod Supercharged things? Some PWC engines are "dry sump" engines and require a little more attention and time. As far as changing spark plugs, well, while you got them out go ahead and do a compression check on all the cylinders and make any notes on the repair order that may need to be discussed with the owner. Put anti-seeze on the plugs when you re-install, etc. Also, as far as your Sea Doo goes, it takes a few minutes to really check things over as they are complex little machines. Was $294 too much???? If everything above was done, and your unit inspected really good, prolly was not really a bad price. If your SeaDoo is a small, older unit that does'nt have all that new technology, you paid too much.
Now, that's just my opinion.
Steve
ps. Our little tifs don't bother me one bit. You have never been mean, out of the way, called me names or talked down to me.
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| Name: |
CAT BOAT
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| Subject: |
Cat or anyone with sense about marine engines help
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Date:
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5/17/2011 9:59:00 AM
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So, you like my shop? Just sayin'
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| Name: |
USAF Sea Doo Dude
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| Subject: |
Cat or anyone with sense about marine engines help
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Date:
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5/17/2011 1:37:25 PM
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Bob,
I too was upset at the cost they charged for winterization/summerization...especially when I bought the 2nd Doo. I have 255 s/c and a 155 non s/c. The process is really easy. Sea Doo sells a maintenance kit (part number 295 501 075), Kowaliga has them and they're cheaper on line, but they're about $75/kit. The kit comes complete with a gallon of oil, filter, o-rings (2), 3 plugs and easy to follow instructions. The only special tool required is some type of siphon pump ($5-$200) to suck the oil out of the dipstick. The instructions tell you that you need a special tool to remove the oil filter cover, a 7 or 8mm socket works just fine. It also says you need a special tool to seperate oil filter cover from the container, a stubby flat head works perfect. And it also says you need a special tool to remove the oil filter, I use my finger. The first time I did it myself it took about an hour, stopping regularly to replenish the beverage of my choice. But now I can do it in about 20-30 minutes per unit...or about 1-2 beverages of choice. They say you're supposed to change the oil/filter in the fall and the plugs in the spring AFTER you crank it to blow out the fogging oil. But in the fall I fog it and I use a drill pump to fill the cooling system/intercooler with RV Type antifreeze and cover it up and then do everything else in the spring...been fine for 3 years now.
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| Name: |
Rooster
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| Subject: |
Cat or anyone with sense about marine engines help
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Date:
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5/17/2011 3:06:07 PM
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Yeah, I like your shop. Work's not to shabby either. Little motor still runs great. At least it does when I make sure the fuel line is hooked up correctly. LOL.Thinking I might need another primer bulb, as current one is slow to pump up sometimes. See ya!
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| Name: |
Murph
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| Subject: |
Maybe I'm Naive...
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Date:
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5/17/2011 5:28:47 PM
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I assumed everyone had a heated warehouse to store your watercraft in during the winter, thus alleviating the need for winterizations. It also makes it more pleasant in mid-January when you get the hankering to go sit in the boat with a beverage of choice and make engine noises while turning the steering wheel from side to side. Since I keep my boat in such a warehouse, I don't winterize...think of all the money I save.
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| Name: |
CAT BOAT
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| Subject: |
Maybe I'm Naive...
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Date:
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5/17/2011 6:46:27 PM
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Maybe your crazy, or forgetful Murph. I winterized your boat. Imma' send you some memory loss pills. Can you record some video of you making noises? I got to see that.
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