| Name: |
4691
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| Subject: |
Department of Justice
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Date:
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12/29/2011 9:23:03 AM
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Example of justice as ruled by Obama and Holder's DOJ - It is OK for Black Panther members to blatantly harass and intimidate voters entering and exiting a polling station BUT it's NOT OK to ask the voters once inside a polling station to show a valid ID before voting. The former is considered freedom of speech and the latter is deemed discrimination against minorities. I guess you have to be a lawyer to understand this legal stuff.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Department of Justice
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Date:
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12/29/2011 9:44:40 AM
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Well, if it is okay for Right to Lifers to stand outside abortion clinics and harass and intimidate women entering (freedom of speech) then it is okay for Black Panthers to harass and intimidate voters (freedom of speech). Not saying that harassment and intimidation should ever be okay, but it is freedom of speech.
But you raise an interesting point about asking for ID. But, unless the country issues an ID to all legal citizens (right to privacy?)of voting age, how would you enforce such a thing? I think this could be a slippery slope as to what is a "valid" ID? Looking at it from another angle, who would determine what is a "valid" ID? Some would say that a requirement like that could be used to eliminate certain groups. I personally wouldn't have a problem being asked to show an ID, but I think requiring this could be easily challenged in court.
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
Department of Justice
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Date:
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12/29/2011 7:46:28 PM
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I vote in Georgia and always have to show an ID to vote. Why is this a big deal in SC? I believe it is because it is a swing state and they know they will get a lot of votes from the dead and odd people that have not voted in other elections as long as an ID is not required.
It is the same reasons dems are against on line voting ... they know it will make it easy for business people that travel, etc to vote and most are republicans. No, it is not security ... and you still would have an option to vote in person ... with an ID. Electronic would be more secure since you would have multiple security levels and users assigned passwords, etc.
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| Name: |
Barneget
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| Subject: |
Department of Justice
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Date:
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12/29/2011 7:56:54 PM
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Democommieprogs fight state issued voter ID laws because many of their voters have outstanding warrants and would be subject to arrest when they attempt to secure the ID. Even I can see how that would suppress their vote, and voter turnout.
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| Name: |
4691
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| Subject: |
Department of Justice
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Date:
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12/29/2011 8:03:33 PM
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Voter ID requirements by state...interesting which states have no voter ID law
URL:
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| Name: |
4691
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| Subject: |
Department of Justice
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Date:
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12/29/2011 8:04:15 PM
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http://www.ncsl.org/Default.aspx?TabId=16602
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
Department of Justice
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Date:
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12/29/2011 8:15:12 PM
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In teresting may ... most of the "no photo ID" states are states won by democrats ... might there be a reason for this and why they are fighting a photo ID requirement.
I see Georgia says strict ... and they are ... I have an Alabama license and they almost did not let me vote last time until I proved that I also own a home in Georgia ... and my wife was with me and she had a Georgia license with our Atlanta address. They said I should bring a current utility bill for our Atlanta home as well as my Alabama license.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Department of Justice
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Date:
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12/29/2011 9:01:03 PM
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I think that some of the laws on the books probably go back for years and years.
It would seem to make sense to standardize it nationally. I don't see anything wrong with having to present a valid ID; however, as I pointed out, I can see a slippery slope as to what would constitute a valid ID. Perhaps some Republicans would like to narrow it to keep minorities from voting. (Sorry, I couldn't resist that, given all the ridiculous statements made about Democrats). Maybe the utility bill should be the universal standard.
It's a shame that a country that that prides itself on it's democratic process to the point where other Americans go to foreign countries to oversee elections, that we have to be concerned about illegal voting. But that's the world we live in.
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
Department of Justice
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Date:
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12/29/2011 9:55:01 PM
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I would think the answer to be simple - if a citizen wants to drive, that citizen does as he or she does now - take a test, pay the fee and get a DL. If they have no interest in driving they apply for and get a FREE state-issued non-driving picture ID.
Not trying to restrict voting, just trying to ensure the itegrity of the voting process. What is so wrong with ensuring each qualified voter is given the opportunity to vote once?
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| Name: |
buzzbuster
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| Subject: |
Department of Justice
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Date:
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12/29/2011 10:44:30 PM
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Only-- Leagal voters once.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Department of Justice
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Date:
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12/30/2011 8:47:16 AM
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I don't have a problem with it, but I'm wondering if some groups wouldn't say that it was an attempt to "identify" the population. And playing the devils advocate -- what proof would you need to present to get the non-drivers identification card. And if you use the driver's license, how can you be sure it's not adulterated or stolen or passed around and used at multiple voting sites?
I'm not convinced that "illegal" voting is such a widespread problem. But, I guess that certain conservative outlets are already raising this as an issue, so that if Obama is re-elected, they can claim that he "stole" the election with illegal votes, instead of blaming it on a poor Republican field. Remember the "hanging chads"? GWB virtually stole the election from Al Gore (and believe me, no one wanted Al Gore LESS than I did)
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Wrong again Hound
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Date:
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12/30/2011 9:18:40 AM
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It is actually against the law in many states to intimidate and harass and the vast majority of pro-lifers just stand there with signs and pray. I suspect you have never been to a pro-life event but I have been to dozens and I can tell you the only harassment and intimidation I have seen has been from passers by screaming profanities, flipping the bird, swerving their cars toward the sidewalk, etc. We just smile and continue to pray for them. You should attend an event and see what it is really like and talk to the people. They genuinely care about unborn children and also those mothers that have abortions as they know well the emotional damage it does.
On the issue of voter intimidation it is against federal law. If you recall this law was passed to protect southern blacks from white, southern democrats that would harass and intimidate them from voting. That is the historical reality. And the only party that has tried to suppress votes is Democrats who regularly try to suppress the military vote. Also a historical fact.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Wrong Again MM
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Date:
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12/30/2011 9:32:40 AM
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Right to Lifers have actually gotten in women's faces with pictures of unborn fetus, and calling them murderers and demanding that they change their minds. It's well documented. These did not take place at rallies, but at individual planned parenthood and other venues that perform legal abortions. And the courts protected the actions as "freedom of speech".
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
Department of Justice
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Date:
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12/30/2011 9:51:34 AM
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Would be better than nothing. Would make it more difficult to commit voter fraud. Would require a large scale conspiracy to measurably affect the outcome.
Requirements for non-driver ID could be utility bills like some have suggested for voting, except that in the ID process a mug shot would accompany the name, thus linking one face to one name. True that the individual could get an additional person's utility bills and go to another registration office to register to vote, but again anything widespread would become known over time.
A determined fraudulent voting scheme, should there be one, will succeed. But a voter id would help to reduce the scope of the fraud.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Give some thought to reading my post
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Date:
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12/30/2011 12:59:43 PM
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If you had you would have seen that I used the term "vast majority" as I will stipulate that there are a small segment of pro lifers that simply go over the top and some even become extreme. But this represents a tiny fraction of the overall pro-life movement and does a disservice to the movement and to those they hope to convert. The majority of my time at pro-life events has been outside an abortion clinic and I can tell you we have a very civil relationship with the doctor that performs the abortion. However, the same cannot be said for the people driving by.
On a positive note, a number of women have voluntarily changed their minds about having an abortion because of those very dedicated and peaceful people that genuinely care about the unborn and those women that choose to have an abortion and suffer greatly afterward. Just read an interesting book called Unprotected by Dr. Miriam Grossman. She is a psychiatrist that has tremendous experience with post-abortion counseling of college-aged women. It is a sobering account from a pro-choice doctor who abhors the lack of factual information about the emotional trauma of abortion. I would recommend you read it but I doubt you will be very comfortable with what she documents.
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| Name: |
4691
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| Subject: |
Give some thought to reading my post
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Date:
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12/30/2011 1:11:58 PM
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The typical liberal's view about the value of life is such a contradiction; they will defend the right to continue the life of a convicted murderer almost as fiercely as they defend the right to end the life of an unborn child.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Very true.....
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Date:
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12/30/2011 1:18:45 PM
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But it also true that a lot of pro-lifers also favor the death penalty. Recognizing the difference between the guilty (convicted criminals) and the innocent (unborn babies) I can at least understand the rationale for this apparent contradiction. I think that is a much more principled argument than liberals lack of coherence on abortion and the death penalty.
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| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
Department of Justice
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Date:
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12/30/2011 2:04:54 PM
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Mr. Hodja
I completely agree with you. I personally have no problem with the requirement of a picture ID requirement to vote as long as getting the ID is simple, free and universally available to all those legally qualified to vote with special provisions for those too old, too feeble, lacking transport etc.
Still, there is one question regarding picture ID's that I have never had answered to my satisfaction...If you are able to obtain a picture ID by presenting non-picture evidence, then why can't that same evidence be presented at the polling place? Does there always have to be a middle-man? If there really is all this "fraud" around voting, are we not in danger of merely shifting the physical place where the "fraud" first occurs from the polling station to the DMV.
Voter fraud can happen in places other than the voting booth...especially in the obtaining of absentee ballots which in GA and most states still does not require a picture ID or any evidence that the vote being counted was actually cast by the person who obtained the ballot.
To make it completely fair with the same hassle factor nationwide for everybody, how about a national Voter Photo ID Card to be used and accepted only for voting. Make everybody get one before the 2012 General Election from the corporate CEO to Cobb County home schooler moms to members of Congress to entertainment and sports figures to the 95 year old blind grandma. I would gladly comply and bet MM and WW would be too!
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Nothing is Typical Anything.
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Date:
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12/30/2011 3:14:15 PM
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I happen to support Capital Punishment. I don't support abortion as a method of birth control, but in cases of rape, incest and if the mother's health is at stake (medical necessity) I think it should be an option.
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| Name: |
4691
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| Subject: |
Nothing is Typical Anything.
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Date:
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12/30/2011 3:59:10 PM
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You are correct in that I should not have used the word "typical"
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
How about a purple finger?
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Date:
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12/30/2011 4:42:54 PM
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Archie, I actually like this post which should make you nervous.
The absentee ballots are indeed fraught with potential peril and I am not sure how you fix that one. I do think it should be harder to get one than it currently is but other than that I am at a loss. I do know that showing some form of picture identification has the potential to eliminate a lot of voter fraud where a person votes multiple times under different names. Requiring this as an interim step seems to make sense to me but is definitely not a permanent solution.
As for a national voter ID card, I would like to see a proposal for this that also protects a person's privacy. But like a driver's license, if it is voluntary then I could probably get behind it. And by voluntary I mean if you want to vote you have to get one but if you are so opposed to having one then you don't get to vote. Just like the driver's license being a privilege. I don't necessarily like being fingerprinted but I need to drive and thats the law.
OMG, we may agree on something......what's the world coming to?!?!?
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| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
How about a purple finger?
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Date:
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12/30/2011 6:39:21 PM
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Well miracles happen from time to time. I seem to remember you had some kind things to say about my healthcare ideas a couple of years ago inspite of my suggestion that some kind of mandate was essential to actual meaningful reform. Now...What about my question of shifting this "rampant voter fraud" from the voting booth to the DMV?
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
How about a purple finger?
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Date:
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12/30/2011 9:39:10 PM
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Yes they do and I recall the agreement on health insurance reform. And I completely agree that the only way it works is for a mandate, otherwise you get adverse selection and costs will skyrocket. I simply do not believe the constitution allows for the federal government to do force an individual to buy a product.
As for your comment about shifting the fraud to the DMV I think you are correct in principal. However, at least you have one person committing fraud by not being allowed to vote legally using a fraudulently procured drivers license versus one person being able to vote multiple times pretending to be someone else and not being asked to prove their identity. In Georgia it would be even more difficult considering they take fingerprints.
As I said its not the ultimate solution but it would make it much more difficult as it would be a multi-step process to commit fraud versus a very easy one right now.
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