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| Name: |
MAJ USA RET
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| Subject: |
ARE CREATED EQUAL
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Date:
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2/18/2012 9:03:09 AM
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My hypothesis (and that of Dr. Wm. Harley) is that men and women ARE NOT EQUAL. Though they have ALL the same parts… they are built, arranged, programmed, and function differently. This is much like the difference between a Jeep Wrangler and a Porsche Carrera. They perform the same basic functions but each has its specialty.
Some women do very well at pretending to be Jeeps… and some men do passably at pretending to be Porsches. But, in the main, men and women shake out the way they were built and programmed.
As we see in modern society, the more confusion about the sexes, the more social anxiety is presented. Huh? (Yep, at least one of you reading this is not amused at this point.)
I’m sure you’d like some proof. I agree, there needs to be a statistically valid and reproducible experiment to prove my point (we’re following the scientific method here).
Dr. Willard Harley, points out five basic needs of men and five basic needs of womena . He derived these needs from a statistically significant survey of thousands of married or committed heterosexual couples (+/- 2% at 95% confidence). The needs are presented in priority order.
Women:
1. Affection
2. Conversation
3. Commitment
4. Security
5. Honesty and openness
Men:
1. Sexual fulfillment.
2. Recreational companionship.
3. Attractive spouse.
4. Domestic support.
5. Admiration.
Therefore, it is statistically valid to say that men and women DO NOT THINK ALIKE.
So, they don’t think alike and are not built the same way… WOW what a concept. Viva la difference between xx and xy.
You are mistaken if you think I do not believe in EQUAL RIGHTS. And any woman who a) can do the job, and b) does not distract from the mission must have equal opportunity to have the job.
WHAM! At this point at least one of you has focused on my condition “does not distract from the mission.” It is inevitable that certain gender traits will lead to distracting and mission degrading behavior(s) in dangerous environments when the genders are mixed. What about the avalanche of wishful, politically correct, pseudo-think we are being fed in order to bend gender. It’s hard to stay on offence when your instincts shift to defense.
Men, each and every one of you KNOW what you would do! It’s not politically incorrect – you are wired to be that way.
Women, too bad… that’s just the way we are. There must be a reason for it.
AND TO BE SURE, I DON’T WANT IT ANY OTHER WAY!
a) SOURCE: Harley, William F., Jr., Pd.D., 1986, His Needs, Her Needs, Fleming H Revell Co; Thirty-first printing, April 1993 edition (June 1, 1986), ISBN-10: 0800714784, ISBN-13: 978-0800714789
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
ARE CREATED EQUAL
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Date:
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2/18/2012 9:47:02 AM
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It's true that men and women are not the same. This has everything to do with our biology.
I don't necessarily agree with the attributes that your expert lists as characteristics of men and women, because I think it varies wildly by individuals. We could debate how many of those are a factor of "nature" vs. "nurture" and societal expectations to conform to certain norms.
But, just because we come at things differently, doesn't make us unequal. It just makes us different. The equality of which I speak has to do with the way women are treated.
I have long been an advocate for equal treatment of women. By "equal" I do not mean that special standards are set for women, but rather that women are given the opportunity to meet the same standards that might otherwise be set for men.
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| Name: |
MAJ USA RET
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| Subject: |
ARE CREATED EQUAL
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Date:
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2/18/2012 10:10:32 AM (updated 2/18/2012 10:12:19 AM)
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“I don't necessarily agree with the attributes that your expert lists as characteristics of men and women, because I think it varies wildly by individuals.”
Please read the statistical precision and confidence statement again.
“By ‘equal’ I do not mean that special standards are set for women, but rather that women are given the opportunity to meet the same standards that might otherwise be set for men.”
I agree to a point. Recognizing that men and women respond differently to danger (threatening stimuli) when in a mixed gender environment, the unequal response would be the converse of “force multiplier.”
I do believe that a woman with a 40mm chain gun is just as dangerous as a man with one. (The one I saw was about 5’ 2” and appeared to be about 100 lbs soaking wet… minus the 40 lbs of body armor.)
From my professional (engineering and science) experience, my women supervisors, peers, and subordinates (except for the one superior who was a “mommy tracker”) were equally proficient in every way. If you are equally qualified, equally productive, and equally available for work, and NOT a danger to your co-workers... you MUST have equal opportunity.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
oops...just saw this
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Date:
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2/18/2012 1:54:17 PM
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Didn't need my post below refuting Hound's ignorant idea that men and women are equal. What I find humorous and more than a little ironic is that the majority of feminists don't really want equal opportunity. They want equal outcome. That's why you see all sorts of relaxed requirements for women in the military. They really can't compete with men in certain areas because God made them different.
When they stop asking for special treatment and special requirements and they can compete I will be the first one to applaud their accomplishments. Until then, they are just deluding themselves about the nonsense call equality.....
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
oops...just saw this
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Date:
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2/18/2012 6:25:50 PM
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At it again, Piss Ant wrench turner? Maybe you could make the maintenance staff in the Pentagon. They need people to change the light bulbs.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
oops...just saw this
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Date:
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2/18/2012 6:31:29 PM
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The only reduced standard for women in the military is on their PT test; to account for their biological differences. Women in the 'Army are still precluded from serving in certain combat arms, but that is changing too. I think if women are good enough to give their lives or limbs for their country, they deserve equal treatment. And it will come, no matter what you think MM.
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| Name: |
MAJ USA RET
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| Subject: |
Consider
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Date:
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2/18/2012 6:47:10 PM
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The 5’ 2” woman I saw “manning the 40mm chain gun… an MP. But there she was, her National Guard MP unit called to Iraq. That’s right, MPs were never intended for combat. She was squirming up into the gun turret of an armored Humvee. Atop that vehicle, despite the armor, she would be shredded in an IED attack. No shortage of guts (considering that her contemporaries were probably back home hanging out at the mall).
Her image of bravery notwithstanding, were she in my vehicle and we were hit. I KNOW my mind would be focused… significantly on her. I would not leave her to suppress fire. Staying with her would a) jeopardize the defense and b) increase my vulnerability and c) complicate the extraction. The men reading this will understand the dilemma… the women will not (though you may say you do).
God bless her father and mother. Blessed is the ground she walks on. Lest she marry a combat vet, no husband will ever KNOW her.
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| Name: |
deepwaterd
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| Subject: |
oops...just saw this
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Date:
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2/19/2012 9:09:22 AM
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Next time your car breaks down. I hope your machanic knows you think he is a "piss aint"
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Equal opportunity is not equal outcome
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Date:
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2/19/2012 10:14:20 AM
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Its good to see that you do agree there are basic biological differences. So men and women are not equal. So as long as a woman can perform the required activities then I have no problem with them having equal opportunity. But you freely admitted that they have to lower standards so women can get in and that is wrong.
If your mother were unconscious in a burning house you surely would agree that it would be wrong for her to die simply because the woman firefighter wasn't strong enough to pull her out, right? Or would you gladly sacrifice her life just so you can have equality of outcome?!?!? I know I wouldn't for your mother or mine. Oh and by the way, the same goes for a man that can't meet the physical requirements. It would be equally wrong to have a male firefighter that also could not perform those duties.
You see Hound, unlike you I could care less about gender, race, sexual orientation, religious affiliation, etc. I believe in equal opportunity, but not equal outcome. Reducing standards so someone can get into the military is not about equal opportunity.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
My, my.....
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Date:
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2/19/2012 10:20:09 AM
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Just think how many wars have been won at the Pentagon! Just sitting there is an office doing paperwork never killed anyone or broke anything, which by the way is the actual job of the military.
We win wars by the 10% that fight, the 85% that provide them with the materials and in spite of the 5% sitting in the Pentagon sipping their lattes and planning their next meeting on purchasing $500 toilet seats. I know Hound, those are the ones that are easily replaced. It is the brain surgeons that really make it happen.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Yeah, its like Animal Farm
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Date:
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2/19/2012 10:20:54 AM
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Some of us are more equal than others.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
oops...just saw this
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Date:
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2/19/2012 12:39:42 PM
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My mechanic is polite and raises Walker Coonhounds. He doesn't run his mouth like a pissant.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Equal opportunity is not equal outcome
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Date:
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2/19/2012 12:53:51 PM
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If you weren't so busy formulating your response, you would have read that I do not believe in reducing the standards for women. I think that if women want to be police officers, fire fighters, etc, they should have to meet the same standards as men. And I think the vast majority of them do.
And the differences in the PT test for men and women is only to meet the minimum. Women are just as free as men to exceed the standard set for them and many, many do.
I'm sorry to say guys that I think your age is showing. You grew up in another era. Most young guys today are used to young women being "equal" -- they live in the same dorms and have women as friends. Some of them have been on the same sports teams as girls. I think a lot of young men don't think of young women as sisters, wives and mothers.
They are not shocked to have a woman for a boss or a colleague. I don't think they view them as someone that needs to be protected. A friend of mine's 29-year-old wife was kiled flying counter-drug surveillance mission in Colombia. She was the pilot and their plane was shot down. She was a West Point graduate and a soldier. Her body came home in pieces. I don't think anyone thought she was less than equal.
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| Name: |
GoneFishin
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| Subject: |
Equal opportunity is not equal outcome
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Date:
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2/19/2012 1:32:47 PM
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"You see Hound, unlike you I could care less about gender, race, sexual orientation, religious affiliation, etc. I believe in equal opportunity, but not equal outcome. Reducing standards so someone can get into the military is not about equal opportunity."
Martini, since you could care less about sexual orientation and gays are required to meet all the standards in the military, one has to conclude you now accept the fact that gays should serve in the military. You must be planning to run for office as a RINO.
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
You don't deserve to address MM
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Date:
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2/19/2012 3:35:34 PM
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So you don't have time to answer MsrtiniMan's challenge, but you have time to dream up cheap shots.
In "real life" you might be OK but on this forum you are a sniveling coward.
What's your excuse this time?
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| Name: |
GoneFishin
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| Subject: |
You don't deserve to address MM
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Date:
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2/19/2012 3:49:45 PM
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You are so funny. What is Martini some Deity that I don't deserve to address him??????????? Why is it a cheap shot? What did I state that you disagree with? The truth hurts and you are having difficulty accepting it. Now calm down and accept the inevitable. OBAMA 2012.................
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
You don't deserve to address MM
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Date:
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2/19/2012 4:08:44 PM
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You know exactly what I am talking about. You don't deserve to engage in a one way conversation with him because you won'rt respond to his challenge, which was quite clear In case you forgot, here it is again:
"GF, sorry but there is no way you can distract from the awful fact of the lies coming from Oblamer and his administration. I gave you my example so if you want to explain to me how that is true I await your attempt with glee. So GF, educate us as to how many votes it takes to pass the budget in the Senate and what was the vote on the Teleprompter's last failed budget.
No diversions and no obfuscation.......lets see you answer that one. "
Now I am very calm so there is no need for you to tell me to calm down unless yo'd like to do it to my face. But you won't because you are such a coward that you won't show your face.
So keep your tail tucked between your legs and keep on refusing to engage in two way adult discussion of the issues.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
You're showing your isolation
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Date:
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2/19/2012 5:08:17 PM
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Hound, I have news for you, I have a 21 year old son, 17 and 16 year old daughters and I suspect I know way more about what young people today think. How many children do you have at that age?
I also have plenty of new employees that are young women and men just out of college. Our latest hire was the captain of the MIT women's rugby team and she will be a star employee. We have a mentoring program for these young women specifically because they are working in a male dominated industry.
I also have women in our senior leadership as well. My general counsel, CFO, and Dir. of HR are all women. That represents 3/5th of my senior leadership are women.
But guess what? Not one of them are in the role because of their gender. They got the job because of their skill and determination. I could care less whether they were women or men but I can tell you I don't have lower standards fro them. If I did they would be insulted.
You need to get out more and spend time with people like me that walk the talk instead of being holed up in some lakehouse watching pmsnBS all the time.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
GF, silly boy once again
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Date:
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2/19/2012 5:14:47 PM
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GF, if a gay can serve in the military without degrading effectiveness by wearing their sexual orientation on their sleeve I am not opposed. But when they reduce morale or negatively impact the quality of their unit they need to go. And that goes for heterosexuals as well, the difference being that unlike gays, our primary identity is not our sexual orientation. Heck GF, I would even support a left wing nut libtard in the military if they can pass my criteria. Its just that none of them seem to enlist ir they can't pass the drug screen. They're too busy downloading free stuff off the internet in their parent's basements.
Don't ask, don't tell GF.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Not worth the effort Mr. H
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Date:
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2/19/2012 5:17:19 PM
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GF knows that they are an embarrassment and a failure. Like so many left wing nuts, they actually are pulling for the destruction of the country by the Teleprompter in Chief. In a way it was really a rhetorical question as we all, including GF knew the answer. We have had no budget passed for over 1,000 days because the Dems in the Senate won't pass one.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
You're showing your isolation
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Date:
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2/19/2012 8:55:35 PM
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I'm not isolated at all. Unlike you, I actually know young people in the military. Some of them worked for me, some of them friends of those that worked for me. Unlike you, I don't have my head up my butt, thinking I know everything about everything. You've made it pretty clear the isolation in your life -- you only associate with those that think like you do and agree with you. And your kids were raised by you, so no doubt they know better than to disagree with you.
But it's okay MM. I will continue to work for equal opportunity and for women's right to health care. It may not be an easy road, but it's one I (and many others)have been on for a long time, and we've had our successes. We will continue to be successful, as we recently demonstrated.
You are a computer forum bully. It's too bad, but I understand that this is probably the only place where you get to hold forth with your opinions, "facts" and BS.
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| Name: |
comrade
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| Subject: |
You're showing your isolation
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Date:
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2/19/2012 9:21:17 PM
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Hound,
Always difficult to define what our "rights" are, but do you consider a "woman's right to health care" to include an imperative to buy a service?
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
You're showing your isolation
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Date:
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2/19/2012 9:47:42 PM
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I'm not sure I understand your question.
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| Name: |
comrade
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| Subject: |
You're showing your isolation
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Date:
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2/19/2012 10:02:13 PM
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In regard to contraception"..."
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| Name: |
GoneFishin
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| Subject: |
Martini
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Date:
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2/19/2012 10:18:27 PM
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"In a way it was really a rhetorical question as we all, including GF knew the answer. " Thanks for answering it.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
You're showing your isolation
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Date:
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2/19/2012 10:59:29 PM
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I'm not sure under what circumstances contraception would be an "imperative". I think a woman (or man) that wants contraception should be able to obtain it. If see/he has health insurance, and it is covered under her benefits, then I think health insurance should pay for it. If she/hw does not have health insurance, then I think it is fine if she/he obtains it from a source which receives full or partial government funding (I'm talking about PP or some other org of that nature). I think it is far preferable for a woman to have access to contraception to avoid pregnacy than have to seek an abortion, or to bear an unwanted child (which may be abused, end up in the CPS system,etc). Of course, not all unwanted children end up that way. Some are given up for adoption or are taken in by family members.
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| Name: |
comrade
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| Subject: |
You're showing your isolation
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Date:
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2/19/2012 11:17:44 PM
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The "imperative" refers to the inclusion of this in the proposals of Katherine Sebelius, and condoned by Obama. I'm all for contraception too, but who pays for it? Sounds like in the end, we are all forced to subsidize maintenance of the herd, and it doesn't matter if you want to participate - the government will force you to. The difference is choice and civil liberty. (Forced to buy contraception insurance -supposedly illegal - vs having the government declare a tax, which they CAN legally do.) No one thought Castro was a communist when he was elected, but things just seemed to change........
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| Name: |
comrade
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| Subject: |
You're showing your isolation
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Date:
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2/19/2012 11:21:03 PM
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My mistake - Castro wasn't elected. "Took power" would be more correct.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
You're showing your isolation
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Date:
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2/20/2012 11:32:42 AM
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You are getting cranky. So you know a few young people that you worked with in the military. BFD. While they are some of our best and brightest they still represent a very small minority of the population. So you know a few young people in a demographic that represents less than 1% of the total population. And I have my head up my butt?!?
Hound, you forget the industry I work in. I am in the environmental field which unless you have your head up your butt would realize is not exactly the typical home for uberconservatives. I have vegans, tree huggers, Obama lovers, animal rights lovers, etc. that I work with. I have employees all over the US and in Canada and have worked in this industry for almost 25 years. I will gladly compare my qualifications and experience about what young people are thinking over yours any day.
As for my kids, they are free to think what they want and we have a very open dialogue with them about all sorts of things. If you think my kids are afraid to tell me what they think you are sadly misinformed. In fact, my oldest has a degree in recording arts and works in the the left wing field of graphic motion design for clients like the uberleftist CNN. My youngest wants to go into the theater and even though I dont think she will enjoy waiting tables I am encouraging her to pursue her passion in life. However, I will admit that they are all socially conservative as they went to a school that taught them to think critically. Having examined the evidence they too have concluded that only a mental midget would believe in the leftist agenda. They see the out of wedlock births, despite easy access to contraception. They see the explosion of STDs, despite easy access to condoms. They see the significant mental illness issues (depression, etc.), risky behavior and drug and alcohol abuse in the gay community despite greater than ever acceptance in society. They see the kids of divorced parents and how they have behavior problems, drug and alcohol abuse, etc. and have rightly concluded that the damage done to society by people that think like you is not worth the so-called freedom to live any way they want.
So Hound, pot....meet kettle......
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
You're welcome
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Date:
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2/20/2012 11:34:31 AM
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I always knew you agreed that the administration is lying to the American people........but as a left wing nut you probably like that as the ends do justify the means don't they?
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
You're showing your isolation
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Date:
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2/20/2012 4:28:44 PM
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MM, have you ever responded to a post in 10 words or less? You seem a bit verbose.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Yes :-)
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Date:
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2/21/2012 9:25:18 AM
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Just trying to educate you. (5 words)
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