| Name: |
mom
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| Subject: |
Robinson Road
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Date:
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4/19/2012 7:01:52 PM
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Maybe I can clarify... I am a Robinson of Robinson Rd. My parents began renting "our" cabin when I was 8 yrs old (I think) and I am now 54. Back then you purchased the equity in the cabin from the previous renters, this included docks, boat houses, additions etc... but there was no lease at all. It was handled with a "gentlemen's agreement" and a handshake. Part of the agreement was since equity was purchased, rental price was based on cost of the original structure to build and was never to be raised unless the cabin changed hands and rental price was renegotiated at that time. That of course changed years ago with the change of leadership at RL and, truth be told, with the changes in our society as a whole. "Gentlemens agreements" and handshakes are not worth much any longer. "Our" cabin rent increased multifold over the past decade. Over the past 45 years, our family and many others queried RL about purchasing the lot and cabin we rented. My father was told it would one day be developed but not in his lifetime, and was told his family would have first right of refusal. He wondered at the surveying tapes recently, called for clarification and was told nothing was happening. His first inkling of the development months later was a friend offering condolences on the loss of the cabin. Multiple calls to RL finally confirmed the news. Our neighbors, also tenants for decades were actually told by my parents (thankfully, as they had a contractor hired for new flooring to be installed that week). The Robinsons WERE offered first refusal (only after many phone calls to RL) at full market value,but have graciously declined... they are now 82 years old and 80 years old and feel that while the lake and the cabin are part of their souls, the new development will likely take some time and the over one million dollar investment would not be enjoyed. As my precious dad put it... "That's a long run for a short slide honey". And further, they are dozing the five cabins and putting in twentyfive cabins, so it might feel a little crowded. He did try and buy the cabin itself to put on some of his farmland but was told that wasn't possible either, it will be destroyed. Mrs. Key (now 84 yrs old and a 50+ year tenant) was also always told she had a first refusal right, but was told she could NOT purchase her lot or cabin after all (they had other plans), but at least she did get a letter.
For those of you who weren't raised on this precious lake, let me explain. This is not an issue of legality. This is a lifestyle of grace and honesty and openess which we feel is/has been defiled. We grew up here in the summers barefoot and mildewed. Cabins were open (or the key under a rock) in case someone was stranded. You fed someone else's dog or kid until their Mom came to find them. NEVER did you pass a stranded boater... you towed them in and were insulted if they offered you money. Handshakes meant something, in fact they meant everything. The uber wealthy caught frogs and lightning bugs with the mill workers kids.
We are in mourning a bit... not just for the loss of a cabin, but for the loss of something much bigger. It may have died years ago but this brings it into such clarity... We mourn the loss of honesty, where the pursuit of the almighty dollar shadows common courtesy. We mourn the demise of a handshake, where legality supercedes integrity. We know the cabin was only ours for a while and we will cherish the memories of our family just being a family there. We know RL owns that land and cabin. But we do feel as if RL handled this very poorly... Legally? SURE. Respectfully? NOT ON YOUR LIFE. So forgive us our passion and we will try to forgive you for your lack of passion.
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| Name: |
au67
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| Subject: |
Robinson Road
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Date:
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4/19/2012 8:48:27 PM
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"This is not an issue of legality. This is a lifestyle of grace and honesty and openess which we feel is/has been defiled."
"We mourn the loss of honesty, where the pursuit of the almighty dollar shadows common courtesy. We mourn the demise of a handshake, where legality supercedes integrity."
What talent you have with words and if only everyone had your passion!
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| Name: |
lakngulf
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| Subject: |
Robinson Road
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Date:
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4/19/2012 8:50:28 PM
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Well said and exactly the point. RL can do whatever they want, and will, but in so doing, they are destroying history, tradition, respect and dignity.
I have only been an owner and lake resident for a short time, but I feel your mourn. Not long after I was here I found Pitchford Hollow. It was with pride that I took all visitors on a boat ride up that large slough so I could say "This is what lake cabins are supposed to look like." Seems that those small docks and screen porches were full of lake lovers every weekend. I hate to see them go.
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| Name: |
mom
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| Subject: |
Robinson Road
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Date:
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4/19/2012 10:35:57 PM
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Thanks for reading that volume! The first part purely factual, but the second... straight from my heart.
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| Name: |
Catherine
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| Subject: |
Thank you for sharing
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Date:
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4/19/2012 11:59:20 PM
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It truly is sad to be reminded again that there are few men left whose word and handshake mean more than the bottom line. I am certain that whoever shook your parent's hand, and gave them his word, is spinning in his grave at the thought that those who came behind him are not deserving of such honor, and clueless as to its worth and meaning.
As you've said, this isn't a legal issue, but one of character and respect, neither of which are qualities which the Russell Lands of this generation is commonly known for (not among my acquaintances, at least). I am happy your family's memories of the Lake cannot be taken from you, but I am saddened that they have been so tainted by greed and arrogance.
I am quite certain that Ben's father nor grandfather would have stood for this at all, nor would the other families who were pushed aside.
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| Name: |
head
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| Subject: |
Robinson Road
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Date:
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4/20/2012 8:29:23 AM
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GOLDEN RULE Ones with gold rule!
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| Name: |
BigFoot
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| Subject: |
Robinson Road
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Date:
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4/20/2012 10:13:11 AM
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Wow! I second au67's point above....
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
There's more of this to come
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Date:
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4/20/2012 3:24:31 PM
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What really changed was when Russell reverted to just being a landowner and no longer an operating business entity with lots of employees and other sources of revenue. If you have a place on RL land that you rent and don't have a written long-term lease w/o exit language you would be wise to limit your investment in the property. They definitely have other plans.
As painful as this is to have happened, one source of comfort is the many years of happy memories created by having the cabin. Most folks will never have that experience. That was what drove us to be a lake house while our kids were young. As I told my wife, the purpose of this place is to create memories for your kids and grandkids. From what you wrote it was mission accomplished although I feel for the way it seems to be ending.
Any chance the family can band together and buy a place that is less expensive than an RL development? Now is a great time to do so with values down a bit and interest rates at all-time lows. Would create a legacy that can be passed down to future generations so they too can make memories for their children. Just a thought.......
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| Name: |
GoneFishin
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| Subject: |
There's more of this to come
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Date:
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4/20/2012 3:36:57 PM
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MM, once again the planets are aligned as I am in total agreement with your post.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
It happens....
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Date:
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4/20/2012 5:06:22 PM
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and I suspect a lot more often than either of us would like to admit. Rarely about politics but thats for the off-topics forum.
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| Name: |
lakeguy
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| Subject: |
Robinson Road
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Date:
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4/20/2012 5:11:10 PM
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Thanks for the best post I have read on this site. Your eloquent words and passion paint a beautiful word picture.
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| Name: |
Seaglass
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| Subject: |
Robinson Road
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Date:
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4/20/2012 6:48:56 PM
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mom, I understand your thoughts and pain, yes I do. I arrived at the lake four years after you as a child as well.
As if it were yesterday, I remember all the things of which you reminisce. The key under the rock, helping stranded boaters, no cell phones, skiing in Pitchford Hollow and above all, NO loud personal watercraft. If you found yourself lost on the lake at night, you simply studied the shoreline by moonlight for trees, lights and clues to figure out where you were. Those were the good ole days that I will forever take with me. Same as you. I wish the lake was the same as it was back then.
But it's not. Times change and there is growth. Everywhere. Not just here. And alot of it I don't like one bit. You seem to harbor such ill will for Russell Lands, when in fact, it also sounds like they are the very reason that you have so many happy memories. I think you nailed it in your last sentence. It's all about forgiveness. Might you do that too?
Let's forgive and move on and enjoy what we have on this lake in our retirement.
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| Name: |
mom
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| Subject: |
Robinson Road
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Date:
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4/20/2012 8:28:46 PM
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Seaglass... you are exactly right "forgive us our passion and we will try to forgive you for your lack of passion". I NEVER post, but I do follow these forums. That is precisely why I posted... there seemed to be such venom coming from those who did not understand what actually has happened to many families. For example, "go pack up granny" or comments regarding our stupidity in not understanding lease agreements etc... The background is important to know as a foundation for understanding why many of the 40 and 50 year plus renters feel somewhat betrayed. A gentlemens word and handshake were the only semblance of contracts but were nullified a decade ago when priorities or values shifted. Even so, a phone call or even a letter would have been the respectful way to terminate a association spanning more than 4 decades in my opinion.
But please forgive my apparent ill will toward RL... that is not entirely true and I apologize for it seeming so.
Until recently I have admired the stewardship, honesty and transparency, forward thinking attitude and philanthropy of RL. In fact, they seemed extraordinary... and I think they were. Now, I simply find them ordinary. They are like any other business out there, no better no worse. But I am personally dismayed because I thought more of them.
I have no delusions of any other company handling the inevitability of change and evolution any better. Well...perhaps the old RL.
Anyway, please don't confuse me with a RL hater, I am not. I have many friends there and do appreciate so many of the things they have done. But I do stand firm in my feeling the company has treated the older tenants with a total lack of respect and compassion and I fear it is a reflection of company priorities.
I will continue to love the lake and all she stands for. And I will continue to love "lake people".... we seem to be a breed apart. And if I ever see you stranded, I will certainly tow you in... change is inevitable but not all change should be embraced.
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| Name: |
mom
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| Subject: |
There's more of this to come
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Date:
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4/20/2012 8:40:40 PM
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MM, my husband and I did buy deeded land twenty years ago! We raised our children with slamming screen doors and a bell on the porch to call them in for lunch. Fortunately, the sun sets on our porch just as it did on my Momma and Daddy's... You are so kind to worry about them. The next generation of Robinsons will be making memories right here.
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| Name: |
Wakely
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| Subject: |
Robinson Road
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Date:
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4/20/2012 10:09:22 PM
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For reasons that are obvious to those who know me, I was never an RL hater either.
When I look back at threads like the one linked, I wonder who that person was.
http://www.LakesOnline.com/Forum/show.asp?id=80272&fid=6EB63121-22CA-4F54-A718-45B4048F320B&tid=0&SiteID=AL001
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| Name: |
Catherine
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| Subject: |
Maybe I hate them, and maybe I don't.
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Date:
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4/20/2012 11:02:26 PM
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At times, I feel both ways.
What I have felt constantly for the past 10 years, is shame, embarrassment (I knew their mothers and fathers) and disappointment. Under Gene, their decisions usually made business sense, though they weren't always popular. Under Tom, their decisions seem to me ignorantly random and ulterior, a crap shot gamble for a quick return here and there, always focused on the bottom line at the expense of all else, and they are almost NEVER popular or generally logical. Tom strikes me as being entitled, extremely arrogant, but not very bright. I will admit though, that he is incredibly charming. I am certain others will feel differently, and that opinion is just as valid as mine. My opinions are based only on my personal experiences with him, and I understand that his opinions of me greatly influence how he presents himself in my presence.
Ben just needs another old fashioned spanking, that is for sure. He seems more spoiled now than he did back when Daddy had to smooth out all his wrinkles!
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| Name: |
Seaglass
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| Subject: |
Maybe I hate them, and maybe I don't.
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Date:
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4/21/2012 1:27:28 AM
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Under Tom, their decisions seem to me ignorantly random and ulterior, a crap shot gamble for a quick return here and there, always focused on the bottom line at the expense of all else, and they are almost NEVER popular or generally logical. Tom strikes me as being entitled, extremely arrogant, but not very bright. I will admit though, that he is incredibly charming.
First off, it appears as if mom and Catherine are one in the same here? Is that a correct presumption?
Please forgive me for my ignorance and for stumbling into this thread. I'm just a newbie. "Under Tom" I am guessing that you are speaking of the current president of Russell Lands? It sounds like you know him very well.
What strikes me is that you are beginning to sound entitled and arrogant yourself. You sound to me as if Russell Lands owes you something. When in fact, they don't owe you a thing. Maybe take a moment and thank God that you have the luxury and are able to afford to live on the shores of this lake. Because there are many of us out here who can never share that luxury. Just because I grew up here doesn't mean I can live here. You're blessed.
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| Name: |
mom
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| Subject: |
LOL
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Date:
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4/21/2012 2:01:45 AM
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Wow... No. We are not the same. Please feel free to email me and I will give you my phone number if you would like. Again, I really don't hate RL and I really have never posted on ANY forum before and I REALLY posted initially so people would understand why some of the displaced families felt as we do. I missed didn't I? I am not trying to remain anonymous or anything, and I have said much the same thing to the folks at RL. Sorry you feel my opinions are so off track.
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| Name: |
Catherine
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| Subject: |
I'm not mom
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Date:
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4/21/2012 3:58:38 AM
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mom has made it pretty clear who she is, and she is not me.
I know Tom well enough to have an opinion of him. You may not share my opinion, but it is based solely on my experience with him. It isn't all Tom's fault. He is surrounded by an army of yes-men and fraternity brothers who owe him everything. In my opinion, the company is in desperate need of a true leader. Tom is a placeholder, and Ben has left the building.
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| Name: |
Seaglass
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| Subject: |
LOL
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Date:
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4/21/2012 8:37:43 AM
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mom, I'll reply to you since it was your post that got me reading here. It was not my intention to stir anything up. Forgive me. Guess I just got caught up remembering the good ole days. Your past with Russell Lands is your own. I shouldn't have stepped in. It just took me most of my life to learn to forgive and move on. Not easy, but it sure does feel good when it finally happens. Chin up and good luck with all the new changes.
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| Name: |
Wakely
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| Subject: |
Maybe I hate them, and maybe I don't.
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Date:
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4/21/2012 1:21:24 PM
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As recently as 1999, some Russell cabins were being rented for as low as $145 per month for a 3BR/2BA, which I would say is as affordable as you'll find anywhere, and that includes houses that aren't on a lake. It wasn't the renters like mom who made things unaffordable, so your wrath shouldn't be directed at them.
It was around 1999 that a new chief sat at the head of the table, and started the plan to rid the lake of "those kinds of people" (his exact words.) One reason was for the added income, but the main reason was because "people who are going to buy nice houses don't want to be around "those kinds of people."
It was in another of those meetings that the PTB came up with the idea of promoting the idea that anyone who wanted to keep the cabins was "selfish." At the same time, the promoted the value of "removing three or four cabins and replacing them with one house." They knew they could count on people overlooking the contrasting statements, and they were right; never let it be said that they don't know who they are talking to.
Looking back, I wish I had recorded those meetings, but at the time the thought of them being recorded would have terrified me.
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| Name: |
Wakely
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| Subject: |
[Message deleted by author]
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Date:
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4/21/2012 1:21:25 PM (updated 4/21/2012 1:23:07 PM)
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| Name: |
Wakely
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| Subject: |
[Message deleted by author]
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Date:
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4/21/2012 1:21:25 PM (updated 4/21/2012 1:22:47 PM)
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| Name: |
Wakely
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| Subject: |
Note to the curious/suspicious:
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Date:
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4/21/2012 1:24:45 PM
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I deleted two posts because somehow I triple-posted. Super-sensitive keyboard, I guess.
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| Name: |
Kizma Anuice
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| Subject: |
dude I think you are wrong
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Date:
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4/21/2012 7:52:43 PM
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It is my understanding that they are and have been replacing 1 cabin with three new homes.
I believe the selfish theory is that a parcel of property that was producing about $500 annually for the county and state would be producing about 30 times that much tax revenue.
Those old "cabins" are really mill village houses, and not suitable for full time occupancy.
I can see how it is selfish for a person to want to keep a weekend cabin there by depriving three homesteads that are usually full time residences.
It also feeds the realestate hucksters.
It feeds the lawyers.
It increases funding for schools and teachers.
At the end of the day it is all about money whether you are Mom or Ben or Tom.
I am sure mom could have bought the property on which the old cabin sits. It might be three lots now and cost a million dollars or more and she may have to spend another million dollars on construction, but at the end of the day it is all about money.
In the immortal words of Dale Bumpers quoting H. L. Mencken. "If they say it is not about money, it is about money. If they say that it is not about sex, it is about sex."
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| Name: |
jalcz
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| Subject: |
dude I think you are wrong
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Date:
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4/22/2012 2:10:32 AM
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So it's selfish to think that three houses shouldn't replace one cabin, but NOT selfish to think one big house should replace three or four cabins?
Or in other words... if the cabin owners are for it, it's selfish. If Russell is for the same thing, it's not selfish.
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| Name: |
Kizma Anuice
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| Subject: |
dude I think you are wrong
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Date:
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4/22/2012 6:45:16 AM
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I see no evidence that RL is for putting one house where three could be placed. They ALWAYS subdivide the lots that the mill village houses are removed from.
Where are you getting your information? It is wrong.
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| Name: |
mom
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| Subject: |
25 lots for those 5 cabins on Robinson Rd
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Date:
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4/22/2012 7:39:39 AM
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| Name: |
Wakely
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| Subject: |
25 lots for those 5 cabins on Robinson Rd
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Date:
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4/22/2012 2:28:47 PM
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So in his own weird way Kizma is right. It's not THREE houses for every cabin, it's FIVE.
And now he'll find some way to explain how that is a good thing, mere hours after telling us that three-for-one couldn't possibly be true.
That, or he'll just tell you that you don't know what you are talking about.
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| Name: |
Kizma Anuice
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| Subject: |
did you get your nose in the wrong bag?
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Date:
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4/22/2012 7:20:42 PM
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I am saying that there would be more houses after the cabins are torn down. I the past, RL regularly divided a lot that contained a mill village house into three lots after the mill village house was torn down.
Now apparently, they are going to subdivide each lot on which a mill village house is located into FIVE lots.
At least according to mom. " And further, they are dozing the five cabins and putting in twentyfive cabins, so it might feel a little crowded."
If that is true it just makes my point more drastic and pertinent.
NOW WHAT IS YOUR POINT?
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| Name: |
Catherine
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| Subject: |
Why don't you ask Roger Holliday?
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Date:
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4/22/2012 10:09:01 PM
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He of great transparency and impeccable character would certainly give you a straight and accurate answer, wouldn't you agree?
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| Name: |
Kizma Anuice
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| Subject: |
Why don't you ask Roger Holliday?
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Date:
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4/22/2012 10:44:20 PM
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In the words of the philosopher Buffett, "Some things are still a mystery to me, while others are much to clear."
when did you get back?
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| Name: |
Catherine
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| Subject: |
Sunday, bloody Sunday
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Date:
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4/23/2012 5:49:25 AM
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And in the words of Browne, "Pray to God for me baby, He can let me slide."
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| Name: |
comrade
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| Subject: |
Sunday, bloody Sunday
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Date:
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4/23/2012 9:42:35 AM
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Is this some Harry Potter vs Voldemort thing ??
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Excellent!!
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Date:
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4/23/2012 12:09:04 PM
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Funny about the bell for dinner. We actually use one at home to call everyone to dinner. Works better than running around screaming dinner and I can't whistle like my friend's Dad who could be heard from 30 miles away.
Keep making the memories and I am still sorry for your parent's situation.
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| Name: |
Kizma Anuice
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| Subject: |
Sunday, bloody Sunday
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Date:
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4/23/2012 5:53:22 PM
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yes
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| Name: |
Catherine
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| Subject: |
Who is Harry Potter?
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Date:
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4/23/2012 8:27:01 PM
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One of the 17 VPs at Russell Lands?
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| Name: |
Kizma Anuice
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| Subject: |
Who is Harry Potter?
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Date:
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4/23/2012 9:03:23 PM
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There are only 12 of them and they call them apostles
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| Name: |
mom
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| Subject: |
Excellent!!
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Date:
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4/24/2012 6:05:23 PM
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Wonder if they will let me get the bell off the porch? Nah...Memories are sometimes better than the real thing anyway!
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| Name: |
Witt E
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| Subject: |
Excellent!!
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Date:
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4/25/2012 12:05:24 AM
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Would you be surprised if Catherine's started selling those bells?
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