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alahusker
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12/27/2012 10:10:55 PM
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Makes me tired to hear folks agonize over the mess we have with the economy and our policy makers. I know that I can't borrow $0.40 for every $1.00 I spend.. But this does not register with our National leaders. It is really not the fault of "They" in Washington.. " "We" that put them there..
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copperline
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12/27/2012 10:19:14 PM
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I agree with you completely. Can't recall the source but the quote is, "In a Democracy, the people get the kind of government they deserve". For our sake, I hope we deserve better than this.
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h_hob
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12/28/2012 12:00:19 AM
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Copperline,
Don't I remember you touting how great lobama and the liberals were? Seems as if you asked for it now you have it. Doesn't that give you a warm fuzzy?
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MrHodja
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[Message deleted by author]
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12/28/2012 7:04:54 AM (updated 12/28/2012 7:13:39 AM)
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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12/28/2012 7:14:43 AM
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Seems to me that in 2010 "we" put in a number of congressional members, backed by the Tea Party movement, and that "they" have been demonized by "you" (the left) for trying to do something about "our" fiscal irresponsibility.
Can't have it both ways.
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copperline
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12/28/2012 10:54:57 AM
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Actually, I'm not being too inconsistent.. just trying to be balanced in my views.... I think we do need to address these economic problems by restraining growth of entitlement programs (not by slashing them like they don't matter at all). Trouble is, everyone that thinks govt should spend less balks at specific changes that would affect their interests, so nothing is getting done. The Tea Party proposes to reduce the size of govt, but instead has made process of governing grind to a dangerous halt. That will be bad for us in ways we can't completely predict.
But the proper way to interpret my comments is to remember that I have a bias against all those hyper-conservative & reactionary politicians in the Right Wing. At this point, I'd say their obstructionist tactics are threatening to all of us... and the politicians who were swept in during the Tea Party phenomena are part of the problem. Their presence has inflamed the Left, though not to the same degree because the Left isn't as well organized... leading to more polarization & inability to make important public policy choices. Compromise is not a dirty word in my book. It may be the only way out.
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MrHodja
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12/28/2012 3:19:50 PM (updated 12/28/2012 3:26:43 PM)
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A single issue as a case in point. Paul Ryan tries to do something about major entitlement programs' projected growth by proposing to phase in a new, less costly approach. He was demonized by the left, especially in a gross ad showing a Paul Ryan look-alike pushing a grandmotherly woman off a cliff. And his plan wouldn't touch anyone over 50 years of age.
Funny you should say that the right is more organized than the left. My view is that the real situation is exactly the opposite. If the right is so united why didn't they pass Boehner's Plan B? Could it be that some agreed with it, but not enough? Does that sound united to you?
The left in agreement with spend, spend, spend, tax, tax, tax, and take from the wealthy and give to those who don't have as much (whether they would if they could but they can't OR, they COULD if they WOULD but they WON'T) And Obama's class warfare tactice of pitting the masses against the successful, purposefully turning American against American, is especially evil, yet I don't hear any on the left taking him to task for it.
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copperline
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12/28/2012 9:28:33 PM
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No, I meant the Tea Party was better organized, with better media connections, Grover Norquist' having bound so many signatures to his Tea Party Pledge. I don't think there is a similar Left wing group of similar clout, I don't recall being invited to any rallies, or able to form a coalition under one banner at the national convention. No. The Tea Party's strength has been in it's singular message, propelled by a heavy hitting donor base of really rich guys. I don't think it was the arch-Liberal wing of a misguided Democratic Party... it was a vote of lots of moderate people who were scared off by the radical slash & burn, no compromise stances of the Tea Party.... and the selection of a candidate from the ranks of the ultra-rich. Whether you like Obama or not, you have to understand that everyone that voted for him was not a wild eyed radical or pervert. Moderates swung toward the Democratic side this time, but I've seen it going the other way for many years. In the past, they have many times swung right. You have to ask yourself why, and not just see this as an Obama phenomena. The Tea Party scares us. Also, the merging of Religious groups into Political machines is pretty disturbing development that's worth paying attention to because it is far from benign in it's influence on both Religion and the politics in the community.
I have to admit it was easier, and I found no argument with, the religiously based community groups that helped propel the Civil Rights Movement thru here. But I think I found it easier to align myself with a religious/political action group those days because they were preaching an inclusive message, not one with an enemies list and a very uncompromising, absolute view of the world, politics, and devotion to their leaders.
For Tea Partiers, I don't mean to be insulting in any way. This is just how I see it, and you are free to disagree. But if its insults you want to banter about, I'm not interested. I am interested in listening though.
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comrade
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12/28/2012 11:27:01 PM
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If you have an open mind, it isn't difficult to see the civil rights movement and the tea party in the same light, as they both have an "enemies list and a very uncompromising, absolute view of the world, politics, and devotion to their leaders."
But bias will allow rationalization of any (human) decision....my comrade and neighbor
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| Name: |
copperline
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12/29/2012 11:15:23 AM
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Yes, there are similarities to a point. I just found it better to support a movement that was trying to end inequality & poverty and one that opposed all the institutional racism that we had grown up with. The movement brought people of all kinds, religions, sexs & sexual orientations, income levels... across a broad spectrum of the electorate. I just can't see the Tea Party in a similar light as that. But all political movements have certain things in common, whether they be right or left. I still recall when the Left was "well organized" back in the 60's and early 70's, and the mistakes we made, and how the Left's position prompted the development of the "Moral Majority" movement & a long period of conservative control of Congress & the Presidency as a backlash. It seems to me that the pendulum is always swinging back and forth in America, from Left to Right. My thinking is that the Republican Party would be wise right now to acknowledge that the views of their extreme elements is very troubling to Centerist/Moderate/undecided US voters, while a more conciliatory message would be likely to capture more support.
As much as it pains me to offer my thoughts about how Republicans can WIN elections in the future, I think I should shut up and keep these opinions to myself.
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| Name: |
comrade
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12/29/2012 2:20:04 PM
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You do sound apologetic to even entertain conservative values..
Don't you know? "Moderate, middle of the road " is not seen as virtuous today.
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