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| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
Bloomberg reports
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Date:
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1/17/2013 5:17:11 PM
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Corporate AFTER TAX profits were up 171% in the last 4 years. The largest 4 year increase since the end of WWII. Wait a minute...how can that be...what with that despicable anti business Socialist dictator in the White House?
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
So what?
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Date:
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1/17/2013 9:46:02 PM
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Archie, here's a news flash for you and the left wing nuts that love TOTUS, 85% of all jobs in this country are created by small and medium size businesses that arent listed on the S&P 500 or Dow Jones, etc. And the unemployment numbers testify to the fact that he has been an abysmal failure. And the paltry GDP testifies to that fact. And the out of control spending and the.........well, you get the picture. That big businesses that expertly practice crony capitalism and have all the lobbyists do well under a corrupt regime like his is not only no surprise, it should be expected.
Cherry pick away Archie but the overwhelming body of evidence points to a miserable failure here and abroad. TOTUS will have his legacy as America's first affirmative action president that was given a gimme after his first failed term and he will be a failure in his second term as well. We could only look back wistfully and wish for the bad old days of Bush when average deficits were less than $200 billion, unemployment averaged around 6% and we had a President that would never deny assistance to his ambassador and let him be suffocated by Islamofascists all because it would reveal his foreign policy to have been the failure that it is.
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| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
Good points MM
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1/17/2013 10:57:13 PM (updated 1/17/2013 11:05:53 PM)
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Gee, you must have really been in hog heaven in the Clinton years when unemployment averaged under 4% and we had a $235 billion surplus.
As for your newly expressed contempt for big business...well tell it to Trump, the Koch brothers, Jack Welch, and all those other "small business" folks financing the T-party crowd that is calling the shots for the GOP these days.
And BTW MM , do you remember what happened on 9/11/2001 during the good old Bush days after he (or at least his Director of Nat'l Security) had been given a warnings in August to specifically be prepared for eminent attacks from the air by Bin Laden. Do you remember which Commander in Chief gave the order to feed Bin Laden to the fishes?
MM, sometime you can have it your way and sometime you can't have it your way, but you can never have it both ways.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Unemployment under Clinton
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Date:
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1/18/2013 9:03:29 AM (updated 1/18/2013 9:05:49 AM)
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Archie, if you read my posts carefully, and I know you to be an ardent follower and for that I am humbled, you will see that I have often contrasted Clinton and Obama with respect to ideological or ambitious. Obama is the former which has given us the pathetic results that only an affirmative action president could survive into a second term. Now for a little history lesson because I know those govt schools you attended failed you miserably.
Clinton was the former and he had the great fortune of having a GOP-controlled House and Senate starting with the mid-term elections in his first term and continuing through the rest of his presidency. He clearly understood that if he wanted to win a 2nd term it would hinge on working with Republicans to do things like welfare reform, etc. But the fact is that Clinton, even when he was governor of Arkansas was very pro business. To wit, Arkansas was probably 48th or 49th worst state with regard to environmental protection, was very pro business in both taxation and regulations, etc.
Now to Bush's presidency. He likewise had the good fortune to have a GOP-controlled House and a Dem-controlled Senate that could be managed during his entire first term and the results were stellar despite having inherited a mild recession from Clinton (remember, that factoid came from CNN) and having to deal with 9/11. When the economy started to crumble was after the mid-terms in his second term when Dems took control of the House and Senate. Unemployment went up, spending went up, deficits ballooned, etc. See the correlation Archie, understand its significance, use logic and reason to come to the inescapable conclusions I do.....or continue to live in invincible ignorance. I am OK either way.
As for my disdain of big business you do me an injustice. My disdain is for crony capitalism and the use of lobbyists, etc. to achieve what they cannot in the open markets. Its not that I blame them per se as this is the government we the people have given them and they do so in order to maximize profits. But that doesn't mean I can't have disdain for the system that puts that much power in the hands of government.
As for the left's boogymen the Koch brothers, amazingly they are actually fighting against the very system I abhor and desire to promote smaller government, free markets, etc. Visit the Cato Institute and you will see that they promote economic freedom and smaller government, not crony capitalism.
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| Name: |
Scottie
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| Subject: |
Unemployment under Clinton
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Date:
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1/18/2013 10:48:19 AM
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Well stated MM.
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| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
The bottom line
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Date:
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1/18/2013 10:51:12 AM (updated 1/18/2013 10:54:41 AM)
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Under Clinton (the tax raiser) unemployment averaged under 4% and the number of new jobs was close to 23,000,000
Under Bush (the tax cutter) unemployment averaged over 6% and the number of new jobs was 1,100,000
Under Obama (the "affirmative action president) the economy, since the turn around 32 months ago, has gained an average of 130,000 jobs per month vs 23,000 per month under Bush (the tax cutter). Now the entire 48 months of Obama (the affirmative action president) we only gained an average of 14,000 per month but in Bush's (the tax cutter's) last month we lost over 760,000 and the losses had gone up every month for almost a year, while in Obama's (the affirmative action president) first month we lost almost 700,000 but it then went down every month until we tipped back into the positive. If the current growth continues (yesterday the BLS announced new first time unemployment insurance claims had dipped by 37,000) by Jan 2017 we will have gained 8 to 10 million jobs.
In the last 4 years "crony capitalists" have seen their profits go up 171%, the most in any 4 year period since the end of WWII. This in spite of an "affirmative action, socialist" in the White House.
Now MM I may not have the MBA learning that you so often announce with great fanfare, but I can add 2 + 2 even with my "public school" education and know that you either can't add 2 + 2 or simply refuse to recognize the facts before you.
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
The bottom line
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Date:
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1/18/2013 10:57:32 AM
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I would be interested in seeing an analysis with the time line skewed by two years to the right. A president's policies do not immediately affect the numbers. There is at least a two year lag - maybe more - before you can really attribute numbers on the economy with policy.
And my undergraduate degree is in chemistry, for what that is worth...
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Mehh....
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Date:
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1/18/2013 12:43:15 PM
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Why do you keep spouting these jobs created numbers for Obama as if that negates four years of abysmal unemployment numbers, record numbers on unemployment and food stamps, pathetic GDP growth, etc.?!?!?
Can't you come to the rational, logical completely obvious conclusion that he has been a domestic economic disaster, the worst since FDR? And you wonder why I use the term invincible ignorance with you. If you had the courage and intellectual honesty to admit that he has presided over the worst recovery every recorded as I give Clinton partial credit for the results that occurred during his administration, I would give you more credence.
Besides, you seem to want to ignore the other two branches of government as if they are mere bystanders and had no impact, positive or negative, during a president's term. That is yet another example of invincible ignorance. Your govt school education fails you every time you post Archie.......I would ask for a refund.
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| Name: |
Lifer
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| Subject: |
Once again....
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Date:
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1/18/2013 4:13:32 PM
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The phenomenal growth of jobs and the economy under Clinton was driven by the birth of a totally new industry, not the waving of some magic wand. Even Jimmy Carter the 1st could have been successful given the same set of circumstances. The economy grew so well in spite of Clinton no because of him, or any other politician for that matter.
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| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
Once again....it is a fact
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Date:
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1/18/2013 5:16:40 PM (updated 1/18/2013 5:24:29 PM)
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Well in fact, relative to population, employment grew even faster under Carter than Clinton. or Reagan.
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| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
Well Mr H
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Date:
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1/18/2013 5:21:16 PM (updated 1/18/2013 5:23:36 PM)
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If, as you suggest, we discount a president's first two years before his policies begin to take hold, it makes Mr Obama (the affirmative action president) look even better does it not?
Where did you get your degree? I was at Ga Tech in the final years of the Bobby Dodd era.
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| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
Mehh....Blah,blah,blah
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Date:
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1/18/2013 5:35:03 PM
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MM, your MBE and your gray cells fail you every time you post because you are oblivious to what is going on in this country and with the Republican Party. Take off the blinders, turn off Fox (we distort you decide), pull your head out of the sand, talk to some people with differing views (try not to call them stupid or public school failures) and for once in you life to consider all sides of the issues with an open mind. I doubt it, but maybe there is still hope for you to see the shades of gray.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Yep, he benefited from the internet boom
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Date:
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1/18/2013 6:55:50 PM
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Archie probably never heard that one.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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Wow, that was a fact filled answer
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Date:
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1/18/2013 6:58:09 PM
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Typical libtard....lose an argument to facts, logic and reason.....respond like a four year old. Where am I wrong Archibald? How does your blessed messiah compare to other recoveries? Facts, those stubborn things.....and he thinks my head is in the sand.....LOL
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
Well Mr H
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Date:
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1/18/2013 7:28:54 PM (updated 1/18/2013 7:30:09 PM)
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I'm a Razorback, Fighting Chippewa from Central Michigan, and whatever Southern Miss is...Eagles maybe? Have an advanced degree from each of the latter two but have never stepped foot on either home campus.
Graduated from Fayetteville in 1967, and after a month wondering if the draft board was going to catch up with me, started my 22+ year odyssey with USAF.
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| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
Well Mr H
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Date:
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1/19/2013 9:18:12 AM
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I'll surmise you and I might be in the running for the oldest and wisest posters on this forum!
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| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
No facts claimed
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Date:
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1/19/2013 9:20:51 AM
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just some suggestions that might help you to be as wise a man you think you are.
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| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
The internet boom??
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Date:
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1/19/2013 9:27:38 AM (updated 1/19/2013 9:34:26 AM)
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I don't know MM, perhaps your "internet boom" post is out of place, but,...If not, I believe Jimmy (1977 - 80) was a little too early to get much benefit from the internet boom. 2d term Reagan and certainly Clinton...Carter...I don't think so. He did see over 10 million new jobs in his term (notice I didn't stupidly say "he created over etc, etc,"). Try to think it through with your big brain MM...maybe you can come up with a good reason for the big spike in employment in Carter's term in spite of his "failed" presidency. If you want me too I'll give you some "demographic" (hint - hint) help.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
I was referring to Clinton of course
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Date:
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1/19/2013 2:07:10 PM
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Isn't he the topic du jour or did you lose track? You have been touting his amazing economic accomplishments and I and others have rightly pointed out all the tailwinds he had as well as his ambition. Pay attention Archie.....I know its hard with your govt school education to keep up.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Sorry, but I rely on facts, logic and reason
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Date:
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1/19/2013 2:31:24 PM
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I leave emotion to small children and left wing nuts. And I don't take advice or suggestions from someone so far removed from reality that they would believe so much that just isn't so. Thanks anyway Archibald.....
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Oh and isn't jobs created just one criteria?
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Date:
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1/19/2013 3:46:56 PM
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You are all over the place once again Archie. Just today in another post you admonished us for only looking at one criteria......then you did just that in that very same thread and did it again here to try to take the position that not even the most ardent but intelligent progressive would do, tour Carter's economic record. Do I once again need to provide you the laundry list of reasons why he was routed by Reagan? I think trying to educate you over and over again is getting boring.
But while I am at it, what is your fascination with this single number anyway? It is only meaningful in a growing economy and means nothing otherwise. It would be like if I was CEO of a company with two divisions. One lays off 5,000 employees, the other hires 3,000 employees and I go to the analysts touting my 3,000 jobs created and ask the board for a big bonus and raise. Somehow I dont think that would go very so well. But hey Archie, if that makes you feel better about your choices you have at it. Why let the truth get in the way of feeling good about yourself?
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
Well Mr H
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Date:
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1/20/2013 12:28:34 AM
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One doesn't necessarily beget the other......
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