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Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Job numbers for Feb a mixed bag
Date:	3/8/2013 8:50:05 AM

Good growth in private job creation but the labor participation rate is essentially unchanged so in essence the job growth just kept up with new workers entering the labor market. The small improvement in U2 was again due to workers leaving the market due to discouragement. U6 which is much closer to actual unemployment was essentially unchanged from January. They also revised January numbers from 157,000 down to 119,000 so lets see what happens to February numbers this time next month.

All in all evidence that the worst recovery since FDR continues unabated. Feckless policies will do that.....always have, always will........but hey, we should all rejoice and applaud our affirmative action president, we set low expectations and he consistently fails to meet them.

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	yep MM
Date:	3/8/2013 11:16:56 AM (updated 3/8/2013 11:18:21 AM)

The bad news just keep coming! Obama's glass is only half full and close to the edge of the table. Woe is to MM, WW, WIX, hob nob, Mr H and all the rest of the gloom and doom L. Martin T-party faction.

MM you are correct, it is a mixed bag, but if you are really honest and objective it looks like this month's bag from BLS has a lot more cashews and pecans than peanuts.

BTW: MM, you noticed the Jan numbers were adjusted down...did you also notice the Dec numbers were adjusted up...again...2d month in a row? I agree, let's wait and see where next month's adjustment puts the Feb figures AND the Jan figures.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Number not working almost 90 million!!!
Date:	3/8/2013 11:20:12 AM

Unbelievable number. No wonder TOTUS was reelected offering all the free stuff. Devastatingly bad.....

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Tell that to the 90 million sitting at home
Date:	3/8/2013 11:21:28 AM (updated 3/8/2013 11:24:23 AM)

Ask them if the glass is half full or half empty. You have such low expectations of our President. Why is that?

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	One good piece of news for sure
Date:	3/8/2013 11:32:09 AM

Govt employment dropped by 10,000. Mostly on the state and local level since they don't have the ability to print money.

Name:	water_watcher -	Reply
Subject:	yep MM
Date:	3/8/2013 12:21:21 PM

archie ... I thought the report was "ok" ... the point you are missing is we want the economy to do better. The sad part is that after 5 years we still are at 7.7% unemployment, huge deficits all because Obama policies do not work.   We are seeing some growth, albeit very weak, in spite of his policies, not because of his policies.

Just think where we would be if he got off his socialist agenda and actually worked with congress on programs that would help the economy and put more people back to work.

So be happy for 1 decent, not even good, job report and say that is a sign his socialist policies are working.   As a previous post pointed out, it is more the federal reserve policy (and I am not a fan of it) that is giving us the limited growth we are seeing, not Obama.

Just look back at the Bush recovery after he inherited the recession from Clinton when the tech bubble burst, then 9/11. Within 2 years we were seeing job growth of 500-600,000 a month consistently.   And below 5% unemployment and deficits half the size of Obama, even with two wars.

The effects of Oblamercare have not hit yet, that is not until next year.

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Number not working almost 90 million????
Date:	3/8/2013 12:34:28 PM (updated 3/8/2013 12:36:21 PM)

What does that mean? Surely you do not claim they they all are "wanting" to work but can't find jobs. Come on MM, you are smarter than that. My wife is not working because she retired early by choice. My daughter worked for several years until my granddaughter was born and she quit to become a stay at home mom (even though she is a feminist in the truest sense of the word), My next door neighbor's son quit work last year to enroll in graduate school. A neighbor up the block retired early and is now in the Peace Corp (damn liberal!). I am hoping in a year or so to put my feet up and not hit a lick at a snake myself. You are, to be polite, being a bit "disingenuous" when you talk about "asking the 90 million not working if they think the glass is half empty or half full." How about asking the 236,000 people who are picking up a paycheck now who weren't in January what they think about the capacity of their glass.

You point out that 10,000 public sector jobs were lost last month. Well since the beginning of the recession well over 1,000,000 public sector jobs have been lost. My friend this is the FIRST recession in history (including the Reagan recovery of 1983) when public sector hiring has not been a major player in the recovery. Glad you consider that "GOOD NEWS".

You guys are a real piece of work!!!

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	OK, you ask the 236K and I'll ask the rest
Date:	3/8/2013 12:53:21 PM

Archie, I agree that not all those 90 million are actually looking for work. After all, over more 8 million Americans that are eligible to work have given up in the last four years alone. And last month almost 300,000 Americans left the labor force, which is more than got a job. And on average around 175,000-225,000 enter the labor force every month which is why U6 was unchanged.

However, the reason that the number is devastating is the percentage of people in the country that are not working leaves a larger burden on the remainder to pay for the trillions in debt racked up by Obama and his predecessors. This is exactly the issue they have in Asia and Europe and why in Asia they are asking the elderly to die and in Europe they are being overrun by Muslims from North Africa.

As I said, the Feb numbers are a mixed bag which means some good and some bad. As with FoxNews, I am eminently fair and balanced! But again, why do you have such low expectations for the president as compared to prior occupants?

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	By the way
Date:	3/8/2013 1:03:08 PM

It is indeed good news about the loss of public sector jobs although I wish it were true in the case of the federal govt. The fact is if the federal govt wasn't able to print money (i.e., run at a deficit) they would have had to do what the state and local govts are doing.

Government creates nothing. Everything govt has must be taken from the private sector first. I want as much of that money in the private sector where it can be put to good use instead of being pissed away by a bunch of govt bureaucrats making life miserable for the rest of us.

So those former govt workers have to go out and get a job in the private sector like the rest of us. Am I supposed to feel bad about that? I don't think so. Maybe they will now begin to contribute more to society in the private sector than they ever would working for govt. Admittedly they will now have to perform on the job and in most states they can be fired for poor results, they won't get 20 paid holidays per year, they will have to contribute to their 401k instead of a cushy govt pension like the rest of us, but that which does not kill you makes you stronger.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	He doesn't get the affirmative action thing
Date:	3/8/2013 1:06:25 PM

He really doesn't think it is pathetic that four years into a recovery we have these lousy numbers. He doesn't seem to hold our current president to much of a standard of performance and I just can't figure out why. What is it about Oblamer that makes liberals consider pathetic economic news and the worst recovery since FDR something to be happy about? They never want to answer that question for some reason. I just find it curious.....

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	A few FACTS WW
Date:	3/8/2013 1:07:26 PM

Bush II +3 million jobs gained        2.3% change 375,000/yr* in 8 yrs
Clinton    +23.1 million jobs gained 21.1% change 2.9 million/yr in 8 yrs
Bush I +2.5 million jobs gained    2.3% change 635,000/yr in 4 yrs
Reagan +16 million jobs gained    17.6% change    2.0 million/yr in 8 yrs
Carter +10.5 million jobs gained 13.1% change    2.6 million/yr in 4 yrs

* If W he had a few months of 500,000 to 600,000 jobs gained he must have had a few more months that makes Obama's average of 160,000/mo over the last 40 months look like an economic miracle!! If you don't want to give Obama any positive credit for the economy that's fine, but a bit of friendly advice...use Reagan as a comparison bench mark instead of W.

WW...please do so google work before you pop off

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	I don't get it
Date:	3/8/2013 1:26:55 PM

Do you deny that this is the worst recovery since FDR (and hint, you need to look at more than just jobs created as that is the worst form of cherry picking, even though its not very good anyway)?

Geez Archie, all you have to look at is the average unemployment numbers for the last four years compared to all those other Presidents and you will see this is pathetic. Why do you have such low expectations for Obama? I just don't get it.

Name:	h_hob -	Reply
Subject:	yep MM
Date:	3/8/2013 2:09:27 PM

I'm not sure what you are saying Archiebelle. I don't have a dog in this fight. I'm almost as concerned about obama as I am concerned about you.

Name:	water_watcher -	Reply
Subject:	A few FACTS WW
Date:	3/8/2013 4:43:18 PM

As for Bush ... yes, we lost a significant number of jobs when the tech bubble collapsed .... same bubble that INFLATED Clintons numbers.   And then we had 9/11.   But don't get me wrong, fiscally Clinton was a decent president and did work with congress to accomplish a lot.   Also a lot of jobs were lost at the end of bush's 2nd term with the financial market collapse.   I know you want to blame that on Bush, but the facts are clear that the real cause is democrat policy that thought everyone should own a home and the requirements they put on banks. Yes wallstreet took it further ... but what started it was democrat policy. The Bush administration did try to stop it and the democrat congress blocked it.

There is NOTHING you can point to in terms of Obama policy that has been beneficial to the economy ... all his agenda from energy, deficits, obamacare and expanding social programs like foodstamps and SS disability are only a drag on the economy and business.

The weak recovery we have you can thank the federal reserve.

As for jobs ... we could have 200,000 job growth a month for the next two years and unemployment will stay the same and maybe even increase.

So go celebrate the jobs report.   It is a positive that more americans found work in the Obama economy, but there are 90 million more still looking.

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	A few FACTS WW
Date:	3/8/2013 6:39:51 PM (updated 3/8/2013 6:41:57 PM)

The last 12 months of Bush II saw a loss of 4,425,000 jobs. The first 12 months of Obama saw a loss of 4,270,000 (almost as bad as the previous year). The last 37 months of Obama has seen an increase of 5,700,000 jobs for a net gain of 1.43 million.

MM if you count the recovery from the beginning of the recession on Bush's watch the recovery has been painfully slow and probably the worse on record. If you count the recovery from the beginning of Obama's adm it's about average. If you count the recovery from the point at which it which we hit bottom and finally began to turn around it has been a little better than average. It is instructive that the acceleration of monthly losses stopped and a deceleration of losses began the month Obama took office and the losses turned to gains about a year later. Guess now that I look at it in hindsight my "low" expectations for the economy need to be nudged up a bit.

WW, the best month in the 8 years of the Bush II adm was July 2005 with 372,000 new jobs. At no time during the bush years did we see anything near "500,000 or 600,000 new jobs every month."

Folks, I wish we were gaining 500,000 jobs a month regardless of who sits in the WH but it gets old when you Obama haters refuse to admit that it is getting better and that the rate of "getting better" is accelerating. You remind me of Newt Gingrich when he guaranteed a depression would result from the Clinton tax increase.

Name:	water_watcher -	Reply
Subject:	You need to stop smoking that chit, its illegal
Date:	3/9/2013 9:29:09 AM

Spin numbers as you wish ... the facts are that over 89 million americans are still unemployed. AND, we have the lowest job participation rate in history. Fewer people are working now than when Obama took office.

AND, we have the highest number of individuals on government assistance and growing.

He is doing such a wonderful job.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Not in Colorado its not.....
Date:	3/9/2013 9:47:27 AM

Whatever he is smoking it has caused him to dramatically lower the expectations for the President. By those low standards he will love the next GOP president.......but then again, somehow I doubt he will hold a GOP president to those incredibly underwhelming standards of performance. I just don't understand why he holods Oblamer to such a low standard of performance. What is it about the guy that inspires such little confidence and low expectations?!?!?

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	WW you don't do yourself proud
Date:	3/9/2013 10:43:56 AM (updated 3/9/2013 10:49:55 AM)

Talk about "chit"!  You are on something a lot more potent than weed to make those 3 claims...get off your fanny and check it out for yourself if you don't believe the following FACTS:

1/   "There are 89 million still unemployed"... There are 89 million not working. Can your brain grasp that "not
working" and "unemployed" are not the same (sort of like the climate change deniers with "weather" vs "climate").
my wife and daughter and next door neighbor's son are not working but they are not currently desirous
to do so. How many 18 year olds are at Auburn? Are they all "unemployed"? (BTW, MM says it's 90 million)

2/   "Lowest job participation in history"... How far back does history go? The job participation is lower today than
10 years ago to be sure...part of that is due to the recession but some of it is the big slug of baby-boomers
  who are retiring. Now to go back a little further to say 1900 or 1950 (do you consider those years part of
"history" WW?) What percentage of women do you think were in the work force in those years...could it be
possible if all those house-fraus and stay at home moms were not part of the work force that it might make for
a somewhat smaller participation rate than today. Check 1933 (is that in your understanding of history?).
Hoover is out and FDR is in and unemployment is over 25%...what was the "job participation" then? History
is a long time WW!

3/   "There are fewer people employed now than when Obama took office"...Between Jan 1009 and August 2009
   private sector employment went down by 4.4 million, from Sept 2009 through Feb 2013 private sector
   employment went up 6.5 million. WW do you know how to subtract yet?

In the immortal words Charlie Brown  "GOOD GRIEF"

Name:	water_watcher -	Reply
Subject:	You are hopeless ...
Date:	3/9/2013 11:50:00 AM

You just hate facts that prove the Messiah's liberal socialist agenda is a failure, and has failed every where it was tried.

Name:	water_watcher -	Reply
Subject:	and btw
Date:	3/9/2013 11:56:12 AM

so what that baby boomers are retiring ... if jobs were being "created" as you said, why are their fewer jobs?   It is not because we have fewer people looking.

on the 89 million ... if they are not working, they are unemployed.   call it what you want ... but there are 89 million people that are capable to work, would take a job if there was one, and they are not working.

The participation rate is the lowest in history.   So tell me about the jobs Obama is creating, but we keep having fewer people working.   Jobs are disappearing under Obama ... a record only a liberal like you can be proud of and think that is moving in the right direction.

Obama is a failure and the worst president in History.

Name:	water_watcher -	Reply
Subject:	one more time
Date:	3/9/2013 12:03:22 PM

I need you to tell me what you call 89 million people that are capable of work and are not working ... if they are not unemployed, are they employed because they are collecting government handouts.

You are pathetic.

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	You are pathetic
Date:	3/9/2013 12:52:52 PM (updated 3/9/2013 12:54:21 PM)

You hate FACTS that are actual FACTS because they prove your so-called FACTS are in FACT complete fiction.

I guess you are technically you right...if 89 million people of working age are not working they are "unemployed" but they sure as he// ain't all LOOKING FOR WORK!! Heck WW, the way you see it why not add the 45 million kids under 16? That gets you to 134 million "unemployed"...he//...make it look even worse for Obama!

I repeat: YOU ARE PATHETIC and very weak with math.

BTW: hear are some other actual fact....146 million are in the work force (they are working or desire to be working). 134.8 million are working. 11.2 million are not working but desire to be...they are the ones who everybody that have not have their brains somehow altered by the air around Lake Martin refer to as "the unemployed"!

Name:	water_watcher -	Reply
Subject:	Thanks for admitting you were wrong
Date:	3/9/2013 1:49:22 PM

That is the first step to recovery.

And I will admit you are right that not all 89 million are looking for work ... but why is that ... because Obama is the care taker and they have no incentive to look for work where they will only make slightly more than what the government pays them not to work. That is why we need social reform and force those taking government assistance are required to do some form of work or community service to keep the payments coming.

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	WW If you think
Date:	3/9/2013 3:39:37 PM (updated 3/9/2013 3:43:33 PM)

I admitted I am wrong then you are wrong. I did illustrate how wrong and how downright crazy your statements were.

I have no problem (not that it would matter if I did) with you are anybody else slamming Obama and/or his policies, but it burns my fanny when you use misrepresentations and/or outright false statements in some feeble attempt to explain and justify your contempt.

Look at the first two statements you made as fact WW. In one you make the ridiculous claim that "89 million people are still unemployed" and in the next you make the equally ridiculous claim that we have the smallest job force in ALL OF HISTORY! Good Lord WW can you not see and admit that not only are they are both, shall we say, incorrect statements but also outright contradictory statements!! Open your eyes man, and more importantly open your mind. It's not painful and you might learn something.

Name:	water_watcher -	Reply
Subject:	WW If you think
Date:	3/9/2013 5:42:56 PM

You have already admitted that 89 million are unemployed. If they are capable to work and are not, even if they are taking handouts they are unemployed. There is nothing else to call them. On the second, I was referring to the participation rate, percent of the US working age population capable of working that is actually working .... and it is the lowest since being measured. The workforce keeps shrinking due to the failed policies of your boy. And think of what you came back with, it is baby boomers retiring. What an idiot you are .... it is the jobs disappearing and not being created due to his failed policies as to why the participation rate is down..

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	WW it's time
Date:	3/9/2013 10:04:24 PM (updated 3/9/2013 10:09:19 PM)

to fess up. You slopped a bibb full and are to stubborn to admit it. Now you are saying that all the folks among those 89 million that are able to work but are not looking for work are welfare moochers...my wife will be interested to learn that. Keep digging WW...you are getting close to meeting up with a Chinaman. You are a real piece of work! I can't determine whether you are pulling our legs or are really that crazy.

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	By the way MM
Date:	3/9/2013 10:31:59 PM (updated 3/9/2013 10:32:44 PM)

You say "Government creates nothing". Who built the Panama Canal, the TVA, Hoover and Grand Cooley Dams, the VA hospital system, the 4 military academies, the CDC and National Institutes of Health, most of the major bridges and tunnels in the country, Lakes Lanier, George, Hartwell, West Point, Altoona Thurmond, Russell etc (think L Martin was AL Power), the national parks and forests, the land grant universities, on an on. Now MM, please discontinue the use of any road or highway once you get out of your gated sub-division. MM if you think all we have and daily depend on in this nation that was built by national, state or local government would have been built by private entities if the government hadn't done it first ... well, you are as crazy as WW.

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	By the way MM
Date:	3/9/2013 10:45:33 PM

The Government didn't do all that, the taxpayers did.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	You are wrong
Date:	3/9/2013 11:17:31 PM

Geez Archie, you are devolving into your uncivil self again. All those so called govt accomplishments were completed by private contractors and were paid by the govt. Of course, they pissed away $2 of every $3 they spent on the projects in their useless bureaucracy but that's a side issue. You are one poorly informed dude. Yet another low information voter. I would rather be considered crazy than ignorant. Wake up Archie, govt creates nothing. Everything govt has came from the private sector. So obvious even a child could understand that. Now you be nice and stop the name calling.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	You are wrong
Date:	3/9/2013 11:18:00 PM

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Mr H and MM
Date:	3/10/2013 9:01:36 PM (updated 3/10/2013 9:07:22 PM)

Mr H the government did it on behalf of the taxpayers. Same as we taxpayers support the FBI, Public Health Service, FEMA, NTSB, CDC and the US Air Force! Which had you rather we taxpayers throw overboard?

MM of course they were built by private contractors. When did I say otherwise? They were private contractors client was the government. I would be interested in seeing your factual support for that claim of $2 waste for every $3 spent. Strange, the rats nest bureaucracy of Medicare spens less than 25% as much on administration as those models of private efficiency...the Health Insurance Companies. Maybe Medicare learned something from all that "inefficiency" during the construction of Hoover Dam.

I always try to be civil, but as I told WW yesterday I will challenge a statement which is demonstratively incorrect. Sorry if you consider that being harsh, but I think the dissemination of faulty information is not something to be ignored.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	LOL
Date:	3/10/2013 9:33:12 PM

Archie, you said govt did all those projects and you were wrong. Man, you really are a glutton for punishment. Govt creates nothing. All it does is take money from the productive, waste 2/3rds of it and then doles out the remaining 1/3rd to favored parties suckling at the govt teet. It is really so sublimely obvious that I struggle with how you are unable to acknowledge an obvious and incontrovertible truth. It's really not that hard and I don't understand the reluctance. Low expectations for our current president and an unwillingness to admit an obvious, objective truth about the nature of govt. Why is that Archie? What is the psychology behind that?!?!?

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	LOL indeed
Date:	3/11/2013 7:57:03 AM (updated 3/11/2013 8:03:48 AM)

Name which if any of them that would have happened if the government had not used the tax revenues to pay to have them done. Now if you think they are all something we could do without that is one thing, but if you agree that all or some are worthwhile to the nation...well then I do agree...LOL.

Think about it the next time you drive I-75 or pick up your mail or take a sip of water from your kitchen faucet in Atlanta. Really I think you and everyone should consider how different life would be without federal, state, and local governments. They do screw up more often than any of us could consider reasonable, but they occasionally get something right.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	What could they do without me and you?
Date:	3/11/2013 8:58:38 AM

Hey Archie, if you want to give credit then give it where it is due. Tell me what govt could accomplish if it weren't for the hard work and accomplishments of taxpaying citizens? Answer: NOTHING! And remember Archie, just look at how much govt has outsourced to private companies that have been way more efficient and effective at providing services to the general public, for example drinking water (do some research on US Filter and its competitors), wastewater treatment (numerous companies) and so on. When govt gets out of the way and provides the proper incentives it can work.

The fact is govt can do nothing without the power to take money from the productive at a point of a gun. But as I have said on many occasions, and you refuse to listen to me because you prefer to hold onto your prejudices, there is a proper role for govt and it is limited. And there is a proper place in society for that govt role and it should follow the ideal of subsidiarity, i.e., as much as possible at the local level and as little as possible at the federal level.

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