(B. Everett Jordan Lake Specific)
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(B. Everett Jordan Lake Specific)
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
Supply and Demand....Dang It
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Date:
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4/4/2013 5:48:45 PM
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Apparently either they have been selling so much of it or are having a hard time getting it, but the "tax" for procuring non-ethanol gas at the Entec by the river bridge on 231 north of Montgomery is now 30 cents per gallon. That's a 50% increase in the per-gallon extra one has to pay for non-eth(went from 20 to 30 cents per gallon).
Still will buy non-eth for the water toys but plain ole 10% eth is going into the car, unless someone can supply scientific evidence that the increase in mileage outweights the extra cost. But scientific, not anecdotal evidence please (e.g., the % BTU difference, measured scientifically, between ethanol and 87 octane gasoline)
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| Name: |
Summer Lover
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| Subject: |
Supply and Demand....Dang It
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Date:
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4/4/2013 7:15:15 PM
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I use gasoline for the water toys, small motors, and a '96 Pathfinder that we leave at the lake (all of which is Sta-Bil treated) - get it from the Pure station on 280 just East of the river bridge or Siggers in Dadeville. I gave up and have been using the 10% blend while at home for the cars. I have an '04 G35, and in real-world driving (perhaps 50/50 city/highway) my mileage difference is negligible. I go through a tank a week, so am not concerned with age, although we have an '08 CLK that gets very few miles and I load it up with Sta-Bil ethanol treatment at each fillup. I understand the BTU content is higher for gasoline than for ethanol, but in my personal experience - I cannot see a consistent mileage advantage on a day-to-day basis. I looked back to my records for April 2008, and my mileage has decreased by about 4% - I also have 58,000 more miles on the car, so I would expect a loss.
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| Name: |
Beekeeper Tony
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| Subject: |
Pure Station ? Non-Ethanol
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Date:
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4/4/2013 8:16:25 PM
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Is,nt the Pure Station (Riverbend Gas & Grocery) Non-Ethanol?
I mean to say that if your talking about he Pure Station at he foot of the Riverbridge then, the fuel they sell is indeed non-ethanol...
just sayin
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| Name: |
Ulysses E. McGill
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| Subject: |
Supply and Demand....Dang It
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Date:
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4/4/2013 8:19:01 PM (updated 4/4/2013 8:46:42 PM)
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The science is there, but it also depends on the price spread. Below is a link for a Consumer Reports article....this is for an E85 comparison, but the standard ethanol mixture at most pumps is also lower in energy than 100% gas (about 3%). Each vehicle will be a little different, but you will get better mileage with non-ethanol. I've done several tests on my vehicles and average about 5% better with non-ethanol as follows....06 Honda and 03 Volvo, 3% better; 89 BMW, 10% better; 02 BMW 6% better; 05 Suburban, 5% better. Note that the BMW's also require premium and the 89 model coughs like an old man on ethanol laced gas.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2011/01/the-great-ethanol-debate/index.htm
Here is the science from WIKI...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel
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| Name: |
Summer Lover
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| Subject: |
Correct
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Date:
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4/4/2013 9:19:46 PM
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I get fuel there when I am at the lake, but live near B'ham, and am limited on getting the good stuff up here. Riverbend has the best prices on the hard stuff. BTW - what time of the year will you get them some honey, honey?
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
Cherry Picking
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Date:
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4/4/2013 10:57:06 PM
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OK, doing some cherry picking among the many facts in the tomes McGill made me read, I found one statement in the WIKI article that is what I am looking for.
"For E10 (10% ethanol and 90% gasoline), the effect is small (~3%) when compared to conventional gasoline,"
So at the Entec station, regular with-eth is 3.39, without is 3.69, or roughly 9%higher price to get a fuel that is, according to the WIKI, 3% better mileage.
At $.030 per gallon price bump it does not compute on a strictly fuel efficiency vs cost comparison.
At $0.20 per gallon price bump, the increase is more like 6%, and compared to only a 3% bump inmileage the advantages of NOT using ethanol come into play.
Bottom line is that at $0.20 bump I fill my gas cans and my car with non-eth; at $0.30/gallon bump I fill the cans with non-eth, the car with the blended crap.
And for every two forum participants there are at least three opinions; mine is just one. Thanks for the feedback.
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I try to buy non-ethanol when I can just to help keep it around, but as you know that's not always possible. There are also many other factors involved (compression, tuning, metallurgy, etc). Ethanol can cause greater wear on many engines adding to the cost...most small and older engines will have additional cost built in if using ethanol and even newer engines can wear quicker because of the corrosive tendencies.....as technology advances many of these problems are being minimized, but they are still something to consider.
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| Name: |
mckaygmc
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| Subject: |
Cherry Picking
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Date:
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4/5/2013 7:13:33 AM
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It's funny, I remember a lot of the same topics being discussed when they removed Lead from Gasoline, other than water intrusion, Lubrication was a big issue. However, as technology progresses I am sure we can work thru this as well. In the mean time, we have the aftermarket additives to get us thru. I hope...LOL
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| Name: |
jcope
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| Subject: |
How do you factor in the price of a good steak?
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Date:
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4/5/2013 9:45:01 AM
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The whole ethanol debacle has caused a dramatic cost in a bushel of corn. And this has had much more than a 10% effect on our food and other agriculture cost.
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| Name: |
GoneFishin
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| Subject: |
Just Sayin
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Date:
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4/5/2013 2:03:24 PM
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Blame it all on Bush. It really pays to use non ethanol in outboards.
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| Name: |
Samdog
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| Subject: |
Supply and Demand....Dang It
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Date:
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4/5/2013 11:57:04 PM
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I was told by a gasman that all gasoline is alcohol free in the winter. Maybe they are changing to summer blend and having to pay for it?
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
Barneget
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Date:
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4/6/2013 10:05:57 AM
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You are in the business. Is the "all gas in the winter" statement accurate? If so, Entec is committing fraud by selling no-eth gas at a $.020 or $0.30 per gallon premium in the winter when it is the same as their regular gas.
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| Name: |
Bspencer
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| Subject: |
Barneget
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Date:
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4/8/2013 9:05:33 AM
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The statement about all gasoline being alcohol-free in the winter is incorrect.
There are different RVP blends to reduce emmissions in certain parts of the state during the summer, but no changes to ethanol content. For most of Alabama, there is no difference between blends in the winter and summer. This goes for non-ethanol as well as E-10. The only counties that switch to a 7.8 RVP blend of gasoline in the summer are Jefferson and Shelby. This runs from June 1 to Sept 15.
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| Name: |
George
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| Subject: |
Supply and Demand....Dang It
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Date:
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4/8/2013 12:56:20 PM
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Mr H., I have a friend that retired a few years ago from Exxon in Houston. He tells me that refinarys sell a winter blend and a summer blend and there is a hard date on which they switch from winter to summer blend and vice versa. He tells me that the winter blend has no ethanol. So during the winter blend cycle, you're getting the same gas from both pumps. It seams a little unethical to me, but he was far enough the corp. ladder to know. He has a house in Parker creek also.
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| Name: |
Ulysses E. McGill
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| Subject: |
Supply and Demand....Dang It
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Date:
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4/8/2013 2:36:23 PM (updated 4/8/2013 3:13:44 PM)
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There are summer and winter blends produced at the refinery. That blending has to do with evaporation rate and fuels with a very low evaporation rate are typically required only in high density population areas that have ozone problems during the summer. Ethanol is blended into gasoline at the distribution terminal. For the point of this thread (making E10), it is not blended during the refining process. The statement about all fuel being ethanol free in the winter is incorrect.
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| Name: |
Barneget
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| Subject: |
Supply and Demand....Dang It
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Date:
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4/8/2013 3:28:33 PM
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It looks like most every statement is true except for the winter blends being alcohol free. I pull from Murphy and Marathon and am required by contract to buy a minimum percentage of the total as blended. The % difference available to me as straight gas is so small that regardless of cost, it is not worth noting. By the way, we are in the midst of a price inversion. Ethanol blended gas has been more expensive than straight gasoline for the last 5-6 weeks. As a side note, last I checked (2009), my fleet of cars and trucks suffered an average loss in mpg of 8% using blend vs gas.
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| Name: |
GoneFishin
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| Subject: |
Trust In Barneget
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Date:
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4/8/2013 4:13:04 PM
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Barney sells gasoline for a living and I would trust what he said. As to his politics, that's a different story.
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
Supply and Demand....Dang It
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Date:
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4/8/2013 9:25:48 PM
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Thanks for the straight answer. The price inversion makes me wonder even more why Entec pushed their up-charge to $0.30 per gallon. I'd be willing to bet it is because of the tremendous amount of lake-bound (Jordan and Martin) traffic stopping in for the eth-free. If I am going to spend an extra thirty cents per gallon I might as well buy it from Jimmy at Quality Food Mart and keep the money local. Last time through he was getting $4 for premium while Singleton charges $4.80 for mid-grade at Parker Creek Marina.
Anyone have an opinion (educated or WAG) on with-ethanol gas treated with StaBil Ethanol treatment?
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