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lakngulf
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6/27/2013 6:32:39 PM
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I think Snowden is a hero instead of a crook. Is there a legal way he could spill the beans?
I think Zimmerman was an over-zealous neighborhood watch cop, but will probably walk.
I think Oblamer is concentrating on the petty in his last few years, snide comments, majoring on the minor.
I think the IRS is the most arrogant, conceited, crooked, extravagant Fed Agency,
and I think the general Fed Agency SOP is that extravagant is ok.
I think Rubio is stuck between a rock and a hard place on this immigration thing. Dems will amnesty new voters in a minute, and will NOT close the border.
I think I have no idea how to solve the immigration thing.
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MrHodja
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6/28/2013 9:35:57 AM
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LNG we agree on most things but for now not on this issue. Snowden is a hero if the controls on information gathered are not what I have seen in my experience dealing with such things. Generally the spook agencies are very careful to NOT gather and use information on US citizens. I know for a fact that the military is extremely careful to stay away from law enforcement matters - which is not really the case here, but the discipline is there and I have seen that same discipline when venturing on the other side of the "green door".
What bothers me most about the current situation is the Obama administration. They have shown, again and again, utter contempt for the Constitution and individual liberties. The library's will call a foul, but in my opinion if the program happened to start under Bush, it was for an honorable reason. Bush is an honorable man, Obama is not and I fear the information might be abused.
The other thing I might point out is that NSA is made up of citizens like us on the forum, and if the information being gathered goes beyond Constitutional limits Snowden would have more whistleblowers joining him. But they aren't so I choose to believe at the moment that proper firewalls are in place to protect our citizens and Snowden is a scumbag who violated the oath he gave upon being granted clearance to work where he did. At best he has no credibility, at worst he is guilty of treason.
Getting out of "proposal jail" later today. Pop pop, fizz fizz, oh what a relief it will be!
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Summer Lover
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6/28/2013 11:16:18 AM
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"The library's will call a foul, but in my opinion if the program happened to start under Bush, it was for an honorable reason. Bush is an honorable man, Obama is not and I fear the information might be abused."
Although I wholeheartedly agree with your opinion of the men, I DO fear the fact that the Government is monitoring so much of what should be our private lives. This data mining has been going on for FAR too long, and is FAR too invasive - more of that liberty vs. security battle. I also question whether Snowden has possession of data, or if he just has knowledge of the type of information collected. If he HAS the data, I would have to say that our security procedures are as f@#&ed up as a football bat...
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MrHodja
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6/28/2013 11:39:33 AM
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Sorry for the library comment. iPad snuck up and autocorrected l I b t a r d without my noticing it.
The thing that keeps popping into my head is the strong criticism the intel community received for "not connecting the dots" before 9/11. I see what they are doing could well be an attempt to ensure we never have reason to say that again.
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MartiniMan
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Here's what I don't get
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6/28/2013 11:54:08 AM
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On the one hand Obama tells us al Quada is on the run and the war on terror is over but on the other hand they have foiled over 50 terrorist plots using this data mining. Who is lying? Obama? NSA? Both? It can't be neither because their stories are at odds with each other.
My opinion is the first is an out and out lie and the second is an exaggeration of the truth.
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lakngulf
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6/28/2013 9:10:40 PM
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If what Snowden is saying is even half true, then that info needed to be out. I can understand why others are not coming forward, because they will be prosecuted. There should be a legal way for whistle blower to spill the beans. I do understand that folks with a lot more security experience and knowledge are on his case. But NSA and govt in general are too big, too invasive. There will always be the 20-20 hindsight folks. The dots to connect only make sense when the action has been committed.
And, no, I do not think the privacy invasions has thwarted that many attacks...
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MrHodja
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6/28/2013 9:59:42 PM
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I don't believe anything coming from this administration. I think it might have been MM who said "if their lips are moving they are lying".
And if Snowden had been an honorable whistleblower he wouldn't be cowering behind some tinhorn dictator's skirts. Beside that ,has he managed to change anything? Have we scrapped the program? Me thinks he's done nothing but inform the enemy that they need to find another way to communicate.
Sorry, but I am old school. If I make a promise I keep it. If I swear to keep information in confidence I do so. To do otherwise is to lose honor. To me Snowden is not an honorable man.
LNG and others, our intelligence community is not out to spy on American citizens. It is out to protect us. It is far too easy to believe they are out to get us. The more difficult choice is to take a deep breath and trust that they feel the same way about honor as I, and have put into place firewalls that none on this forum will ever see. It is too easy to see that big, bad, NSA. It is harder to see the NSA worker who values the Constitution as you and I do, and is careful not to cross that sacred line.
Guess I blew my chances to get a mater or two with that one.......drat.
Nasreddin Hodja
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lakngulf
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6/29/2013 8:34:31 AM
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No maters for you......squash maybe, but no maters
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MrHodja
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6/29/2013 10:41:07 AM
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That falls into the category of cruel and unusual punishment....:>(
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