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Name:	MAJ USA RET -	Reply
Subject:	STAY OUT OF SYRIA - DON'T INTERFERE IN EGYPT
Date:	7/25/2013 9:17:44 PM (updated 7/25/2013 9:21:35 PM)

Quick! Name for me an Islamic nation which complies with the Geneva Convention. I won’t wait long for your answer… I personally don’t know of any.

Why is this?

Because, Islam believes in the utter defeat of their enemies. When he is down… finish him off. There is no quarter. Pillage, plunder, and rape are the right of the victor.

Did “Christians” ever act this same way? Of course they did… the Crusades for example. But, we have had time to reflect upon our history and found ourselves… in view of our beliefs… in need of adjustment. This is to say, that our civilization has matured. We have graduated up the steps of Maslow. This restraint is codified in the Geneva Conventions (four treaties and three additional protocols).

The concept of “…life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness…” means nothing in the context of Islam. Indeed, it is acceptable within their beliefs that principals such as those expressed by the Geneva Convention can be exploited.

When will we learn this as a nation? “Nation building” and “humanitarian relief” are perceived as weakness by our conquered Islamic foes. Indeed... an ephemeral weakness to be expoilted while the taps of our largess are turned on… as they wait for us to leave their lands… so that they can revert to the cruelty that is Islam.

My thesis is that we should refrain from ANY interference in internecine Islamic warfare. As cold as it seems, there will be no reward for our high minded meddling. They will accept our charity and eventually, use the arms we naively give them… against us. Ingrates. The lack of gratitude… is espoused by their religion… because, after all, we are “infidels.”

Democracy means nothing when seen in the light of Islam. Civility and charity are weaknesses. Negotiation and compromise are points of vulnerability. (Remember, I have served as a liaison to the Iraqi government.)

Stay out of the Syrian conflict. Stay out of the Egyptian civil strife. Get out of Afghanistan. Learn from the recidivism of Iraq. Cut off any aid to countries that disparage and/or threaten us. Dare Iran to raise its ugly head.

When conducting war (an extension of politics) against recalcitrant Islamic nations. 1 – drop their bridges and 2 – turn off their electricity. No boots on the ground. No nation building. No planting seeds of democracy. No aid. Tell them we’ll repeat the lesson if they ever spread terrorism and destruction to our corner of the globe again. THIS, Muslims can… and do understand!

If they can’t be responsible citizens of the world, let them eke out a stone-age lifestyle.

Name:	h_hob -	Reply
Subject:	STAY OUT OF SYRIA - DON'T INTERFERE IN EGYPT
Date:	7/25/2013 11:13:31 PM

I totally agree. There are many times kinetic energy is the only thing understood. Shut off any way out of that miserable country and all communication forms. That will be understood better than anything else.

Name:	MAJ USA RET -	Reply
Subject:	STAY OUT OF SYRIA - DON'T INTERFERE IN EGYPT
Date:	7/25/2013 11:25:28 PM

“Behavior is a result of its consequences.” - - B. F. Skinner

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	I am struggling with what to do...or not do...
Date:	7/26/2013 8:59:23 AM

I struggle with what to do vis-a-vis these Islamic states and whether we should try to influence outcomes favorable to us or let them collapse under the weight of their own evil belief system. If you could convince me that as a country we are safer to let the Middle East fall into total chaos I might be more willing to go along. But the fact is that these countries being taken over by radical Islamofascists determined to destroy the big and little Satan (U.S. and Israel) and foist Sharia law on the entire world will not mean we are safer. There is no doubt in my mind that they have every desire to export more terror to the U.S. and giving them a safe harbor from which to do so will not make us safer and in fact may make us more vulnerable.

Having expressed all my concerns about a hands off approach I will stipulate two things: 1) I have no idea what makes the most sense to affect an outcome favorable to our national security; and 2) I am not convinced that even if we had the perfect strategy and executed it flawlessly that at the end of the day the outcome will be any different than doing nothing. Those two stipulations alone may be sufficient to get me on board with your approach. But I am not there yet. One thing for sure, I have zero confidence that the current administration has the intellect, disposition or wisdom to craft any type of response that will benefit the U.S. or its allies. I have so little confidence in them that I am almost to the point of saying whatever they do we should do the opposite and not even have to think about it.

As we drive toward not needing Middle East oil we will certainly have more options. But unilaterally saying we will not interfere may also not be the best choice.......how's that for a total lack of clarity?!?!? What a mess!

Name:	h_hob -	Reply
Subject:	I am struggling with what to do...or not do...
Date:	7/26/2013 12:23:54 PM (updated 7/26/2013 12:37:18 PM)

MM, From your apparent quandry, the best bet would be kinetic energy to assist them along the way to getting their desired number of virgins. Where ever their supreme diety is today.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	I am struggling with what to do...or not do...
Date:	7/26/2013 12:56:17 PM

Now I can get behind that option. Marine Corps motto - Kill them all, let God sort them out.

Name:	MAJ USA RET -	Reply
Subject:	[Message deleted by author]
Date:	7/26/2013 1:16:56 PM (updated 7/26/2013 1:23:16 PM)

Name:	MAJ USA RET -	Reply
Subject:	I am struggling with what to do...or not do...
Date:	7/26/2013 1:25:39 PM (updated 7/26/2013 1:58:00 PM)

"1) I have no idea what makes the most sense to affect an outcome favorable to our national security;"

The outcome will be the replacement of one Islamic government with another. With few exceptions, Islamic nations defer to Sharia law… which is intolerant, unforgiving, repressive, cruel, and advocates stealth and violence to achieve and maintain its tenets. each "new constitution" has a significant clause that allows Sharia Law to trump it (except Turkey… for the present). Democracy and Sharia are mutually exclusive.

Anything that is not Muslim is "infidel." Infidels have no rights. I agree with you, the West cannot effect a favorable outcome to Islamic conflict.

"…and 2) I am not convinced that even if we had the perfect strategy and executed it flawlessly that at the end of the day the outcome will be any different than doing nothing."

In the near future, we shall see that attempting a favorable (democratic) outcome in Iraq and Afghanistan will produce no lasting peace. No matter how we leave them, their cultural impetus is to return to Islamic life and all of its attendant cruelty. It would have been less costly in blood and resources, had we done nothing but conquer and depart… the remedy we effected for Saddam in Kuwait.

So… what DO the Muslims understand? They understand defeat. They neither understand nor respect "nation building" or "charity" or "forgiveness" on the part of the victor in a conflict.

Therefore, my premise is that we should meet their expectations when we strike preemptively or in retaliation for the harboring and or exporting of terrorism. If they ignore our diplomatic warning… we should exact selective and meaningful destruction of infrastructure… while avoiding carnage.

Our military strategy should be to simultaneously drop eVeRY significant bridge (halt all motorized transportation) and simultaneously demolish eVeRY power station and switchyard (turn off utilities). This aerial/cruise missile campaign MUST be followed by dead silence on our part. No occupation… no nation building.

ISLAM UNDeRSTANDS THIS PeRFeCTLY. I predict we would have to do this only once (do you remember Muammar Gaddafi?)

Name:	MAJ USA RET -	Reply
Subject:	I am struggling with what to do...or not do...
Date:	7/26/2013 1:26:24 PM

(I have no idea why the forum does this to a post)

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	I am struggling with what to do...or not do...
Date:	7/26/2013 2:15:07 PM

The outcome will be the replacement of one Islamic government with another. With few exceptions, Islamic nations defer to Sharia law… which is intolerant, unforgiving, repressive, cruel, and advocates stealth and violence to achieve and maintain its tenets. each "new constitution" has a significant clause that allows Sharia Law to trump it (except Turkey… for the present). Democracy and Sharia are mutually exclusive.

Anything that is not Muslim is "infidel." Infidels have no rights. I agree with you, the West cannot effect a favorable outcome to Islamic conflict.

That may well be true but we had relative peace with egypt until the Arab Spring and many other Islamic countries are not the national security threat to the US that Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq and Iran are (recognizing the problem with funding of terror and source of terrorists with many of these "less hostile" Islamic countries like Saudi Arabia). There are different shades of Islamic rule but I agree none are a democracy....it just isn't in their 6th century political-religious DNA.

In the near future, we shall see that attempting a favorable (democratic) outcome in Iraq and Afghanistan will produce no lasting peace. No matter how we leave them, their cultural impetus is to return to Islamic life and all of its attendant cruelty. It would have been less costly in blood and resources, had we done nothing but conquer and depart… the remedy we effected for Saddam in Kuwait.

Although I agree you are probably right I think its still too early to claim total defeat. Our problem, and one we did not anticipate and should have, is that when the people went to the polls they elected Islamofascists. Its why I am conflicted about the coup in egypt. The democratically elected Muslim Brotherhood resorted to their true colors as dictators and were ousted for it. What has replaced it is probably not much better but its too early to tell.

So… what DO the Muslims understand? They understand defeat. They neither understand nor respect "nation building" or "charity" or "forgiveness" on the part of the victor in a conflict.

Therefore, my premise is that we should meet their expectations when we strike preemptively or in retaliation for the harboring and or exporting of terrorism. If they ignore our diplomatic warning… we should exact selective and meaningful destruction of infrastructure… while avoiding carnage.

Our military strategy should be to simultaneously drop eVeRY significant bridge (halt all motorized transportation) and simultaneously demolish eVeRY power station and switchyard (turn off utilities). This aerial/cruise missile campaign MUST be followed by dead silence on our part. No occupation… no nation building.

ISLAM UNDeRSTANDS THIS PeRFeCTLY. I predict we would have to do this only once (do you remember Muammar Gaddafi?)

As much as I like this approach I am not sure it will be effective but you never know. I actually much prefer the approach we took in Libya and take out the leadership and then take out the leadership that replaces the leadership if they misbehave. One thing for sure, regardless of what we do or not do they will still hate us and want to destroy our way of life. So maybe we do all of the above. Blast their infrastructure back to the middle ages and whack their leadership.

Name:	roswellric -	Reply
Subject:	Check.
Date:	7/26/2013 10:24:23 PM

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