| Name: |
Mike Hunt
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| Subject: |
Higher winter water = lower property values?
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Date:
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8/5/2013 10:27:22 AM
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Just went out and measured the water level at the end of dock. 15.5 feet
Which means at -10 I still have useable water. Most people don't
However at -7 many more will have useable water. Thus increasing the number of homes
with winter water and lowering the value of those who currently have such winter water.
Wondering what to tell FERC?
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| Name: |
Samdog
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| Subject: |
Higher winter water = lower property values?
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Date:
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8/5/2013 11:08:28 AM
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I don't think you are correct. Too many factors make up lake front property values.
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| Name: |
John C
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| Subject: |
Higher winter water = lower property values?
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Date:
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8/5/2013 11:44:39 AM
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I agree with samdog. Water level comparison on value is not an either or proposition, eg "either mine will go up or my neighbor's will." I think they are much more tied to the overall value that the market gives to waterfront property at Lake Martin, and I think the higher winter water level helps, but I also think the optional fall pool will help just as much, to attract folks to the area.
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| Name: |
Samdog
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| Subject: |
Higher winter water = lower property values?
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Date:
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8/5/2013 1:45:09 PM
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I believe the longer full pool schedule would be a factor. But I don't believe the winter depth will affect property value.
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| Name: |
Osms
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| Subject: |
A rising tide raises all boats...Sorry
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Date:
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8/5/2013 4:01:08 PM
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just couldn't miss such a great opportunity. Think about it this way, What if the lake was 10 feet down in August like in 2007, would your house have been worth more or less. The lake is not only at your dock.....it's really big.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Higher winter water = lower property values?
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Date:
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8/5/2013 4:46:54 PM
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Come see my view in January versus October or March when we are at around 483. At 483 I have water out my back door that looks really nice. At 480' I have mostly brown mud and a little creek out back that doesn't look very nice. Now that might not matter to a summer residents only but it will make a big difference to retirees that have to look at that view all year long. Which is why year round water homes bring a premium over ones like mine.
Anything that can be done to increase those property values will benefit all property owners. Its called comps and if you don't think that increasing the value of comps doesn't benefit all property owners then you need to talk to appraisers. They will tell you that comps are the primary driver in their valuation methodology.
Or maybe look at it this way. Thirty or so years ago they dropped the lake elevation 50 feet in the winter. I am 100% convinced that if they dropped lake elevations that much again regardless of the the rule curve it would negatively impact property values. Just see what happened to Lake Lanier during the three years that the lake levels suffered or Cumberland Lake in Kentucky when they dropped lake levels for 5 years to repair the dam. Property values suffered greatly.
If the downside is limited, which I believe it is, and the upside overall is positive then we should all be behind the change in the rule curve and the winter pool.
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
A rising tide raises all boats...Sorry
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Date:
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8/5/2013 4:57:18 PM
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I believe in 07 it was more like about 14 feet down - and on the positive side it allowed me to program all the subsurface hazards in the areas we frequent into my GPS.
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| Name: |
Equuspuga
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| Subject: |
Higher winter water = lower property values?
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Date:
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8/5/2013 5:19:00 PM
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Comp means comparable. A house with no water and no view in the winter is not a comp to a house with deep water and a great view. Just as a mansion at the Ridge is not a comp for a shack by the river bridge.
Scarcity of winter water should make it more valuable
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Higher winter water = lower property values?
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Date:
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8/5/2013 5:49:18 PM
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Exactly! Homes with year round water have higher value than those that don't. So do I want my comps to be with or without year round water? Answer is obvious. The value of homes that do not have year round water at 480' winter pool but will at 483' will be in a different comp pool and their values will go up. I don't remotely understand why this is even debatable.
The initial question was whether more homes with year round water will lower the value of the ones that currently do and my belief is they will not. The only viable argument I can imagine for this is the extra competition for buyers looking for year round water. That only holds if the demand is inelastic which I do not think it would be, especially if the higher winter pool were combined with an extended rule curve. That would attract more buyers to the Lake Martin market as we all know that dropping the lake in the winter has an adverse impact on property values which are driven by demand.
But for sure three more feet of water will make a lot of other homes more valuable for sellers and certainly more enjoyable for the current owners. Would I pay less for a house with big views and deep water simply because there are other houses on the lake with three more feet of water? I don't think so. But I would certainly pay more for a house with year round water than one with a mud pit all winter long and that isn't usable from late Sept to March or April. This seems intuitive to me but maybe I am missing something.
For sure I will trust the opinion of realtors and I think all of them agree that this would be positive news for the lake, as does APCO.
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| Name: |
mariah1
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| Subject: |
A rising tide raises all boats...Sorry
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Date:
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8/5/2013 6:38:08 PM
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17.5 feet down in 07. I kept the chart on it and saved it on my computer.
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| Name: |
Mike Hunt
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| Subject: |
Higher winter water = lower property values?
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Date:
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8/5/2013 6:42:48 PM
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well I don't know what "the opinion of realtors" is but unlike you I don't trust them in general on broad based issues like this. I am not sure that they have addressed the right question.
The question is this. Assume for the sake of argument that there are currently 500 houses with sufficient dock water and view water year round. Those 500 houses/lots are at a premium because of the water issue.
No assume that the APCO proposal is adopted by FERC thereby adding another 4500 houses that have sufficient dock and view water through out the year.
With ten times as many houses with dock and view water the price of the 4500 will go up but the price of the 500 that always had it will go down.
The realtors and the power company say that the value of the property surrounding the lake will go up, and it will. But not necessarily all of the property.
Just as if there was only one 1919 dime it would have a very high value to collectors. But if a boat load of 1919 dimes were discovered the value of that single dime would plummet.
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| Name: |
Osms
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| Subject: |
OK, dudes and dudettes
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Date:
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8/5/2013 8:55:59 PM
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If you re-read my post I said 10 feet in AUGUST. I do not have a copy of the chart handy, but I think I remember the low being something like 474.7' the third week of November of 2007.
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| Name: |
mariah1
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| Subject: |
OK, dudes and dudettes
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Date:
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8/5/2013 9:07:26 PM
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You are correct sir!
Dean Grant
Mariah1
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Higher winter water = lower property values?
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Date:
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8/5/2013 9:45:04 PM
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OK, so you don't trust realtors. Explain to me their reason for saying this will improve property values if in fact it won't. Will it make their commissions go up or down? I can't imagine they would argue a position that is counter to their own interests unless they were just being intellectually honest. Either way there is no reason for them to say it will increase property valaues if it wont. Maybe I am missing some other motivation that you can help me with.
You and the others see the world as a zero sum game as if there is only so much money out there and if some person with a less valuable house suddenly has more value because of higher winter water levels then those owners that already have deep water will have to pay the price. Not very sound economic theory. More buyers being drawn to Lake Martin will increase home values for everyone, including those with deep water. Having more inventory with year round water will make the lake more attractive to buyers and should improve values. But at a minimum higher winter pool and a layer draw down will increase the enjoyment of the lake by many others. Why would anyone oppose that? Because they fear they might lose a little value in their property?
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| Name: |
HARRY
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| Subject: |
Higher winter water = lower property values?
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Date:
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8/5/2013 10:29:04 PM
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I understand what you are saying Mike and I agree with you.
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
OK, dudes and dudettes
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Date:
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8/5/2013 10:45:32 PM
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August or November I still got my GPS programmed....wish I had it the other night when my wife ran smack over a hazard buoy....no apparent damage to the buoy or boat (thank goodness for high water) but more resolve on my part to ensure it is with us next time....
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| Name: |
Osms
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| Subject: |
Mr. Hodja
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Date:
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8/5/2013 11:12:15 PM
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Better hook your waypoint alarm up to you boat horn. Those buoys can hurt your gel coat.
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
Mr. Hodja
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Date:
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8/6/2013 9:04:27 AM
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Not that sophisticated....Garmin automotive GPS...plus I haven't been able to find any gel coat on my pontoon boat that the buoy might damage :>)
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| Name: |
Mike Hunt
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| Subject: |
YOUR WIFE SHOULD NOT DRIVE
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Date:
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8/6/2013 9:25:26 AM
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I your wife hits a buoy because she cannot see it at night, it is time that she turns in the keys to someone younger who can SEE. And I don't mean only the boat keys.
It is sad when someone reaches the age where they do not see well enough to drive at night but for their safety and the safety of others they should not drive.
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
YOUR WIFE SHOULD NOT DRIVE
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Date:
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8/6/2013 9:53:06 AM
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Oh, how easy it is to sit on your perch high above all of us mortals and judge.
You weren't there, are not aware of the lake conditions at the time, the age and condition of the buoy in question, nor where we were on the lake, and thus can take your opinion and put it where the sun don't shine.
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| Name: |
HP HQ
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| Subject: |
YOUR WIFE SHOULD NOT DRIVE
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Date:
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8/6/2013 10:15:26 AM
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Ding ding.... round two!
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| Name: |
Summer Lover
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| Subject: |
YOUR WIFE SHOULD NOT DRIVE
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Date:
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8/6/2013 10:15:36 AM
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The sun did not shine at the lake for about two weeks, butt I ASSume that you were referring to a more intimate location...
As far as night time driving, a GPS that records tracks is very worthwhile - on our older boat I used a handheld with a dash mount kit. If I can only convince the boss that a FLIR system would be a great investment...
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
YOUR WIFE SHOULD NOT DRIVE
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Date:
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8/6/2013 10:19:14 AM
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No, I'm done. Will say nothing more.
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| Name: |
Mike Hunt
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| Subject: |
YOUR WIFE SHOULD NOT DRIVE
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Date:
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8/6/2013 11:23:14 AM
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I did not have to be there and I did not have to be aware of the conditions of the lake at the time your wife drove a pontoon boat into a safety buoy.
There are only 3 possibilities:
1. Your wife can't see at night and does not need to be driving. Which is what I assumed and the most charitable assumption possible.
2. Conditions on the lake were so bad that no reasonable person would be driving a pontoon boat in such conditions.
A less charitable assumption, because I would have to assume that your wife and the others on the pontoon boat are idiots.
3. That your wife was under the influence to the point of not being able to see. The least charitable assumption I could have made.
YOu mentions that the area of the lake was involved and the condition of the buoy. Well I don't see how it matters where it occurred, if you hit something you should not hit why does that matter?
The condition of the buoy only matters if it is submerged. In which case you should divulge that information and the location so that the proper people can attend to it and so the rest of us can avoid it.
YOu might also want to file a "float plan" when you go out at night so that we can avoid you.
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| Name: |
Lifer
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| Subject: |
Mike Hunt claims to be Hodja's wife.
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Date:
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8/6/2013 11:33:18 AM
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"I your wife hits a buoy because..." were the first words you typed which indicates you are Hodja's wife.
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
YOUR WIFE SHOULD NOT DRIVE
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Date:
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8/6/2013 11:44:08 AM
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1. Not true
2. Not true
3. Not true
Point: The shore was a great distance from us in all directions.
Point: It was a dark night, but other boat traffic was easily visible.
Point: There was no light coming from the distant shore in the direction we were boating.
Point: There is another buoy in the general vicinity that has a strobe blinking at night, as there are on other parts of the lake, so obviosly not all buoys are easly visible at night.
Suggestion: Since this particular buoy is in such an unlikely place to need one, maybe it needs a strobe installed as well. I may well contact the Marine Police and suggest just that.
Nasreddin Hodja
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
Mike Hunt claims to be Hodja's wife.
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Date:
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8/6/2013 11:45:32 AM
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I dont do "buoys". LOL
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| Name: |
Mike Hunt
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| Subject: |
Mike Hunt claims to be Hodja's wife.
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Date:
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8/6/2013 11:51:57 AM
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Well if you want to nit pick those were not the first words I typed. They were not even the first words in that post. The subject words were first.
And BTW I am not typing any of these words. I am using Siri and sometimes she makes mistakes.
You should see what she types for Mike Hunt sometimes. Just keep saying it fast out loud and you will get the idea
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| Name: |
Mack
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| Subject: |
Yep,, Kisma has Re-Appeared. NT
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Date:
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8/6/2013 12:15:05 PM
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| Name: |
ChrisCraft
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| Subject: |
Yep,, Kisma has Re-Appeared. NT
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Date:
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8/6/2013 12:49:13 PM
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Hmmmm...I thought the topic was water levels & prop values....which, for my two cents worth....will not change due to higher winter levels. Economics and what people are willing to pay will be the dictator.
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| Name: |
lamont
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| Subject: |
Yep,, Kisma has Re-Appeared. NT
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Date:
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8/6/2013 5:35:24 PM
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Yes he has.
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| Name: |
Mike Hunt
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| Subject: |
Did he mean my anuice?
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Date:
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8/6/2013 7:01:28 PM
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| Name: |
MythBuster
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| Subject: |
You knew JJC couldn't stay away.
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Date:
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8/6/2013 7:35:04 PM
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His MO has always been to change handles as soon as enough people have figured out what an insufferable a$$ he is.
Mr. President, Jimbob, Kizma... just a few of the names Mr.Clinton has hidden behind through the years.
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
You knew JJC couldn't stay away.
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Date:
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8/6/2013 8:08:15 PM
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With his new screen name I wondered if hw had a sex change operation.
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| Name: |
lucky67
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| Subject: |
Higher winter water = lower property values?
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Date:
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8/7/2013 10:55:14 AM
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where did the original post study economics? Jeff Davis High ??? ?
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Higher winter water = lower property values?
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Date:
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8/7/2013 4:54:41 PM
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I already tried my best with no luck making my case. Explaining the fallacy of a zero sum game is not working.
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| Name: |
Mike Hunt
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| Subject: |
You knew JJC couldn't stay away.
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Date:
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8/8/2013 10:11:26 AM
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you are so smart you always catch me. But you forgot the handles we used when we were serving time together in Talladega Federal Pen.
Remember I was fortwenty and Hotrod and you were Tyroneswife and honeybuns
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| Name: |
Mike Hunt
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| Subject: |
Culverhouse in Ttown
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Date:
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8/8/2013 10:14:02 AM
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That would be at the UoA RTR
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| Name: |
MythBuster
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| Subject: |
You knew JJC couldn't stay away.
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Date:
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8/10/2013 10:38:52 AM
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I have always been Mythbuster and nothing else; whatever personal problems you keep having that force you into name changes have never afflicted me.
I do miss sitting back and watching those other guys and gals administer your routine butt-whippings; you were way out of your league. I was way out of that league, so I wasn't about to join in. Sitting back and watching was plenty entertaining.
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