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Name:	cartdude -	Reply
Subject:	update on pleasure point
Date:	8/21/2013 12:18:06 PM

Home owners of Pleasure Point are receiving certified letters that the lady who leases from Alabama Power has been told that her lease will not be renewed after Dec 31,2013. The letter states that Alabama Power wants all homes removed by the first of June, 2014. This involves about 77 homes and many are fulltime residences. Many seniors WOW.

Name:	crappyattitude -	Reply
Subject:	WOW....
Date:	8/21/2013 12:41:45 PM

That is sad... Is it all due to septic issues? Seems some else could be done.. but AP is probably looking at Prime property. (not like they don't have enough of that.....)

Crappy : )

(Just outside of Nashville)

Name:	Lifer -	Reply
Subject:	[Message deleted by author]
Date:	8/21/2013 1:58:45 PM (updated 8/21/2013 10:59:51 PM)

Name:	Mike Hunt -	Reply
Subject:	this sux
Date:	8/21/2013 2:08:42 PM

I don't live at PP, and I don't live in a Russell cabin, I live in a 3000 sqft fish camp style home. I only say this so no one will take this as self serving. Lake Martin is continuing to be changed, in a way that will make it more homogenous. And it is gradually being done by acts such as this. I am sure that there are all kinds of arguments of leasing v owning, and it is their,APCO's land. But that doesn't alter the fact that killing neighborhoods like PP is killing the very fiber of what makes Lake Martin great. Next thing you know the will get "THE HUT". Just like they got the SaniFreze in Auburn. Eventually every home on the lake will be your typical "Burb" style home.. Maybe we should just change the name to "Lake Stepford"

Name:	Ulysses E. McGill -	Reply
Subject:	update on pleasure point
Date:	8/21/2013 2:22:36 PM

Wow, that's just not right.....I hope there is some recourse for the folks that live there.

Name:	Summer Lover -	Reply
Subject:	this sux
Date:	8/21/2013 2:34:55 PM

I don't have a dog in this Hunt either, but do have friends who rent there on occasion. Like you, I feel that having diversity of neighborhoods is a good thing - a little taste of what the lake was like in a quieter, simpler time... As far as the leases are concerned - I feel sorry for those who have enjoyed their little slice of paradise as well, but when you party on someone else's place - they can tell you when to GTFO.

Name:	CAT BOAT -	Reply
Subject:	Just don't know what to say.....
Date:	8/21/2013 2:50:54 PM

Kinda like the "Boat Ban" conversation. I understood the concept, but never the reasoning as to why. Exactly what is wrong with Pleasure Point? We have customers, many of them there. They are wonderful customers, just as everyone at Lake Martin. Fix the Sewer issue and let everyone enjoy what their means will allow. Geez. It's already been a tough year for business! Can't this wait? Kick em' while they're down. ????

Name:	LakeLover -	Reply
Subject:	AP takeover
Date:	8/21/2013 2:54:24 PM

WOW, this sounds familiar. AP did not renew the lease for Maxwell/Gunter Rec Area in Sandy Creek. ALL year round residence were told to vacate, which they did last year. This year they went to a April through September season and closed the winter months. It looks like a ghost town this summer and many speculate that it will close for good very shortly.

Now Pleasure Point, who's next??

I smell something rotten and I don't mean the septic system!!

LL

Name:	Lifer -	Reply
Subject:	[Message deleted by author]
Date:	8/21/2013 2:55:55 PM (updated 8/21/2013 2:56:44 PM)

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	AP takeover
Date:	8/21/2013 3:05:58 PM

My understanding at Maxwell/Gunter was that the lease was being violated because M/G was allowing squatters to keep a camper on one spot permanently. A camp ground was being turned into a sub-division, which prevented many short term campers from being able to use the camping spots. Don't know about the seasonal operation. Since it benefits the military member, o-BAMA probably sequestered it. Can't have those military folks enjoy anything.

Name:	Crimson4Lif -	Reply
Subject:	update on pleasure point
Date:	8/21/2013 3:26:28 PM

I am completely baffled at how this can happen. Yes the letters are being sent. Got one. How in the world can they make the ridiculous decision to shut the property down and not give them the option of redoing the septic system. Yes it will cost a million or so dollars. Make it up in the lot rent...do something somehow someway to save the place. Marina is included...PP will no longer be open. I have a friend who just sold his place two places down from us. A double wide...nice deck....nice place....for about 100k. TWO MONTHS AGO!!!!!! The new owners are stuck with a note of around 100k with nothing to show for it. I am sure the bank is going to love that. I know there are some lawyers around that would love to get ahold of this. This kind of stuff makes me dislike RL even more. The greed of $$$$ is unbelievable. Several...I mean several people have large notes on their places. Luckily ours was around 30k.

Name:	cartdude -	Reply
Subject:	update on pleasure point
Date:	8/21/2013 4:20:43 PM

AP offered to extend the lady's lease one more year because her lease expired Dec 31, 2012. There were requirements that needed to be fullfilled by her and as of this date she has not even started. Therefore, AP will not renew her lease and now the homeowners are the victims.

Name:	Ulysses E. McGill -	Reply
Subject:	update on pleasure point
Date:	8/21/2013 4:33:50 PM

If I were a homeowner, I would attempt to lead a coalition and meet with APC. I would propose to APC that the new homeowners coalition would take care of all needed repairs and then would lease the property directly (with negotiated details such as a long term guarantee of the lease and certain standards of upkeep). Any homeowner that didn't want to participate would be required to move as stated by the letter, and their property would become community property to be sold or leased by the coalition.....I think this could be a win, win, win scenario for APC, PP homeowners, and other lake residents that use the marina.

Name:	Shortbus -	Reply
Subject:	smells on pleasure point
Date:	8/21/2013 4:42:53 PM

Is this indeed a septic/sewer driven issue? This we all can understand.

Or is Dixie sailing, Pleasure point, etc. an evil masterplan of a previously benevolent Alabama Power?

There are retirees over there just wanting to see a few more sunsets .

Something smells, yes. Is it poop or greed?

Name:	Crimson4Lif -	Reply
Subject:	smells on pleasure point
Date:	8/21/2013 5:57:06 PM

I wonder the same thing. I am a little confused as to why it can't be worked out. Is it entirely impossible for it to work or does AP or RL have alternative motive here to try and make it work so that it SEEMS impossible to work out. The problem is the codes that require getting the septic away from the water. PP is a penisula and of course you can't just go in one direction as the lake is right on the other side. But these places have individual septic systems (some are double) and not a entire property septic tank. Why can't the individual people pay to have their septics meet standards/code? If you can't afford it then your out....but just seems odd that all of us just have to abandon homes...with most still being paid for. Sure it will take some money to pump it all the way up the street to a deemed OK spot but that is not even an option homeowners have...so it seems. Something is not right....how can you allow the sale of deeded homes to be done for over 40 years and in a matter of days could be taken away from you because of another persons actions...or if correct no action. Very sad and frustrating....alot of people are fixing to lose a ton of money and some banks are gonna be pretty ticked off.

Name:	CAT BOAT -	Reply
Subject:	Ok.....
Date:	8/21/2013 6:01:27 PM (updated 8/21/2013 6:06:17 PM)

So, lets fight it????? I got plenty of practice, really. Yall in? We have a HOBO association, Lake Watch, even realators selling property/dwellings there. I think it's time to get busy. I like a challenge. It;s gonna take a BIG group effort, money, attys, brokers, dealers, tax collectors, judges, the list goes on and on. Or, lets just let things take course.

Name:	George -	Reply
Subject:	Crimson
Date:	8/21/2013 6:09:05 PM

I only know what I just read above. How does this make you dislike Russell Lands even more. I don't believe they were even mentioned in this until you brought them in.

Name:	Mike Hunt -	Reply
Subject:	Ok.....
Date:	8/21/2013 8:40:41 PM

The first step should be to determine how many households in PP are willing to put up money for sewage system. From the little information that is given approximately 1 Million dollars is needed, so assume for the sake of argument that that number is correct.

There are some 70-80 households involved. At most probably 50 would participate. For the purpose of argument assume that number is also correct.

That means each of those 50 households would have to be willing to come up with $20,000. If there is that kind of interest then a visit with APCO would be warranted. At such a visit, you could see what the APCO would be willing to do lease or sales wise if the proper septic system were installed.

With out the pledges to pay for the system you are wasting your time. You might be anyway but at least you would have a shot. If nothing could be negotiated then it would be time to rase money for Attorney fees.

If there is not a willingness by the households involved to put up a million dollars, the fight is lost.

Name:	Mike Hunt -	Reply
Subject:	Read the contracts
Date:	8/21/2013 8:43:43 PM

Read the contracts

Name:	cartdude -	Reply
Subject:	Read the contracts
Date:	8/21/2013 9:04:52 PM

Without the servay being done the million dollars is just being pulled out of the air.And a fight there will be and more.

Name:	Mike Hunt -	Reply
Subject:	Read the contracts
Date:	8/21/2013 10:52:41 PM

WTF are you trying to say?

Name:	10toLife -	Reply
Subject:	Read the contracts
Date:	8/22/2013 7:59:55 AM

Its hard to believe, as someone mentioned before, APC has leased these lots for years and is now snatching them. We can only guess that APC has been dealing with the Lessee for some time on the sewage issues…. but they elected to bury the problem for fear of causing mass panic. How close to your lease termination do you start working on a new lease agreement ?? Seems like with something of that magnitude ( 70-80 homes) it would have to be sorted out at least a year prior to be sure all was in order.

APC has all the power … and they have such an alliance with RL it does follow they are going to give them rights to that area at some point .. just like the Kowlagia Restaurant and countless other leases they have not renewed. When we bought our home our Real Estate agent wisely told us to steer far clear of APC lots. And seeing this-- I am glad she did. It is very sad this is happening and those people should come out scratching and fighting -- as I am sure they will.

Name:	Mike Hunt -	Reply
Subject:	Read the contracts
Date:	8/22/2013 8:49:25 AM

I cannot say because I have not "read the contracts" but it appears that some "old lady" LLC or other entity had a lease for all of the property that contained the homes, trailers, and mobile homes that are in question. It further appears that "old lady" or other entity sublet or rented, a portion of the leasehold estate to each "owner" of the homes, trailers, or mobile homes and that there were many septic tanks or systems that provided service to those persons, maybe as many as one for each household. And further that none of those systems were properly permitted.

It also appears that when APCO got ready to renew the lease with "old lady" they discovered the problems. APCO then gave "old lady" 1 year to rectify the problems and come into compliance with all government regulations regarding septic systems.

At some point during that year it was determined (one would presume by old lady) that the cost of "fixing the problem" was prohibitive, so nothing was done. At that point APCO informed all occupants of the property that they must vacate within the next year.

Now maybe the occupants/lessees/trailer owner, have a cause of action against "old lady" can't tell without reading their agreements, but if there is privity between those people and APCO, i wish someone would point it out.

Also, those people that are blaming RL and Obama, can you point to any facts that involve either?

To the best of my knowledge and belief, APCO had nothing to do with anybody getting ejaculated from the restaurant property at Kawliga, people vacating Russell cabins, or the non-renewal of the lease for the Dixie Sailing Club.

APCO, however, I understand was responsible for certain problems at Bay Pine. It seems that APCO owns the land adjacent to the marina where the trailers were located in the past. The story goes that when that lease came up for renewal, there was a septic problem that included the Marina property (not APCO leased). APCO did not renew the lease and to this day it has limited what can be done at the marina. I have been told that new technology has provided a solution and that soon Bay Pine will be able to open a restaurant.

I feel for the people at PP and hope that they can work out a solution and I think they can and will, but wasting ammunition shooting at RL and wasting time on conspiracy theories is counter productive. And further if the septic systems at PP or anywhere else on the lake are detrimental to the ecology of the lake then they should be removed and proper facilities put in their place. Unless Obama pays for it then the residents will have to pay.

Name:	PTClakefan -	Reply
Subject:	Read the contracts
Date:	8/22/2013 9:05:34 AM

"APC has all the power … " Hence the name Alabama POWER!

We were also leery about APCO lease lot properties when we were looking to buy our lake home. Although they tended to be cheaper, I never quite understood the allure of leasing the land, especially when looking at stick-built homes. At some point, the lease terminates and you are at the mercy of APCO for renewal terms. While the PP folks can of course move their mobile homes to another site, many have also built permanent additions like decks, porches, docks etc. probably at significant time and cost, and they cannot really recover those costs.

Name:	PTClakefan -	Reply
Subject:	Read the contracts
Date:	8/22/2013 9:13:16 AM

"To the best of my knowledge and belief, APCO had nothing to do with anybody getting ejaculated from the restaurant property at Kawliga..."

Well now that one sounds like a sticky mess!

Name:	cartdude -	Reply
Subject:	Read the contracts
Date:	8/22/2013 12:31:48 PM

RL has no interest in pleasure point,so lets get off these assumptions.

Name:	Crimson4Lif -	Reply
Subject:	Read the contracts
Date:	8/22/2013 1:13:07 PM

Here is another head scratcher....how in the world does AP know that the septic tank on my place is "against code"? How do they know my neighbors is too? None have been dug up...none have been inspected. If the septic tanks were good for 40 years why all of the sudden are they now no good...at contract renewal time? I do agree with what Mike said about the lady...her liability insurance is gonna hate her when this is done! Out of respect for OWNERS (not LEASERS of the homes in that park because yes they lease the land but these are deeded properties that were loaned money with the property as collateral. My trailer ain't worth squat on the sid of the road but put it on the lake and now it's worth about 30k) why wouldn't they get the info out to the public so that they can be warned of the situation. Is it their duty...no....it is the lady who directly leases from them. However, in a moral society which I am sure APCO has zero care for...it would not take much to get the info out. Look how fast this news is spreading. If they did that back when they had the "talk" with the old lady, home owners could have forced her hand or did something to start working on a resolution. Just think about this prime piece of real estate....APCO gets their hands on it....wonder what they will do with it....guessing they will sell it for development....wonder what RL does with alot of land around the lake. Hmmmm...and I am sure there is no communication between the two parties about these things. To sit back and be naive about what goes down behind closed doors is foolish.

Name:	DJ -	Reply
Subject:	Read the contracts
Date:	8/22/2013 1:59:37 PM

OK so please share how you know RL does not want this land? Does anyone know what Alabama Power does with Land that they remove from the Martin Lake Project? Are septic system permits public documents? I agree that this has been in the works for a while and am wondering what made this come up in the first place, anybody know? Could it be that the lease was/is due to renew and someone else is considering taking it over and had the forethought to check on all records for plans to know the septic systems in place and how those plans would play out in future plans to set up new lots to be leased out? I find it very hard to believe this "just came up” with no reason after all the years that place has been there. I have already seen something that makes me think this was planned a while back and I am waiting on someone to get back to me, as soon as I can confirm some things I will post additional information. Yes I use to have a place there with a million dollar view and some of the best sunsets you will ever see and sold it a couple years back, I really miss the place but am glad we sold it. I feel for a lot of folks that have places there, The only thing of value would be the mobile home, not sure about the laws everywhere about the age of a mobile home being set up but there are some places that require they be less than 5-10 years old. There are only a few less than five and maybe a few more than 10 years old so some folks are really screwed. Someone mentioned the sale of deeded homes and banks being pissed off, none of the places in the park have deeded lots, The only monies tied up with a bank would be for the mobile homes book value and places that sell for eighty or ninety thousand dollars with a 20 year old mobile home will not qualify for a loan and the purchase is done with cash and monies could be pulled from primary residences being the collateral. As I remember the lease had a statement that your lease could be terminated with a 30 day notice, could be wrong but don't think so. Sorry this go to be so long but needed to say this much. Good luck to those that still own in the park, I hope this some how gets turned around

Name:	Lifer -	Reply
Subject:	Talk about headscratchers
Date:	8/22/2013 2:12:00 PM (updated 8/22/2013 2:30:37 PM)

How is it you get a 'deeded' lot when the person leasing the lot form the owners has no deed to transfer? You got some splainin to do on that one. For me anyway. As I understand it the issue is with the septic for the marina, not the homes. Maybe she was supposed to keep copies of all the certifications for the sites as the systems were put in place and failed to do so. I don't know and neither does anyone who has commented so far.

As for APCO's "moral obligations" they have none to any of the sub-lessors. They have an agreement with one party. That party has agreements with you and the others. If that party failed to meet her obligations to APCO then you all should, as the headline stated, "read your contracts' to determine what recourse you may or may not have. To stand up and proclaim APCO as the boogeyman is irresponsible and ill informed. As I understand it, she is to vacate by 1-1-14 but APCO has generously provided the sub-lessors with an additional six months. They are legally not required to do that, that comes from a "moral' position on their part. As for notification, they had no legal requirement to notify you or others about negotiations between them and their lessor. In fact, they may be legally prohibited from doing so due to privacy laws, not a lawyer and don't know. It seems to me that APCO has provided you time to attempt rectification, if any exist. Get together and form an HOA stat! Then work as one.

Now about the APCO lessor. Why would any of you even want to include "the old lady" in any sort of fix. It seems to me she has proven to be too irresponsible to continue as steward of such prime real estate. If it is just the marina itself that has the septic issue why not shut it down and seek direct leases with the landowner, APCO. Do you feel like you can't live without the marina/store? If so, why? If it is the source of the problem why not eliminate it? That may be all APCO wants, is the marina gone or brought up to code, and this is their best recourse to do make that happen. Why spend what will surely be in the 6 figures if not 7, just to save her?

AS for your berating of APCO and their lack of 'morals" I take issue with that. APCO goes to great lengths to avoid public controversy whenever they can. Do you think they were just looking for a fight and chose you guys? Bottom line is it is ultimately their land and they can do with it as they desire. You most certainly need re-evaluate this statement:

"Just think about this prime piece of real estate....APCO gets their hands on it....wonder what they will do with it....guessing they will sell it for development....wonder what RL does with alot of land around the lake"

APCO "got their hands on it" sometime around 1923 or so. It belongs to them. Seems to me like you need to take a long look at your situation and consider a not so confrontational approach.

Now all that being said, I am truly sorry any of you are going through this. I have a friend that is front and center in this. Great family. It sucks, but whining want help. Fight, but you better do it with one voice, else you get nowhere. APCO is not going to entertain dozens of individual complaints, pleas, lawsuits etc. I don't know if you read my first post in this thread before I had to delete it. It stated my prediction that Russell will eventually get the land and build another bridge cutting off 45 minutes travel time to their premiere developments from points east. I really feel your pain, but jumping on a high horse claiming morale superiority will get you nowhere.

I'll climb off my soapbox now and get prepared for the cr@p prolly coming my way, But that's the way I see things.

Jest sayin'.

Name:	Mike Hunt -	Reply
Subject:	Lifer gets it.
Date:	8/22/2013 3:47:43 PM

Lifer you are spot on once again.

do you know the whole story about the septic situation on the old camp grounds at Bay Pine. I never heard the full story.

Name:	Lifer -	Reply
Subject:	I sure do.
Date:	8/22/2013 4:56:16 PM

In regards to Bay Pine, a former owner Ann B., owned the Marina. She took great liberties with the adjoining land for MANY years. The adjoining land belongs to APCO. I can't say with 100% certainty, but have been told by a couple of folks that live in that slough, that she never officially leased it from APCO. What she did do was rent out the waterfront portion to anybody that would pay her. It was populated with pop-up campers, small trailers, tents, etc. Some of those places became 'permanent' even going so far as to build piers (mostly floaters built on chemical barrels). The folks that had the RV's and such even went so far as to put in "septic systems". These septic systems were comprised of either a pipe buried in the ground and into the lake, or the upgraded system of a pipe running into a 55 gallon drum buried in the ground. On hot summer days the whole end of the slough stunk of sewage. It only got cleaned up after she sold the place I believe.

This I know for a fact as it was related to me by one of the parties involved. The surrounding land owners tried for years to have something done about it, but APCO being APCO chose to stay out of the controversy and wouldn't do anything about it. Nor would the Health Dept, or ADEM or anybody else they tried to get to enforce laws and codes. It was a mess. All the neighbors hated her before it was over. I know one who told me he would drive out of the slough, right past BP and go to Pleasure Point or Wind Creek to buy gas.

That's ancient history. What is going on now is the Marina has no septic tank, well I think there is one in place from days of yore but has been condemned. The current owners have a legitimate lease on the APCO property next door and have storage on top of the hill, but for whatever reason they can't put a septic system on that land. The waterfront land won't perch anyway so it requires an engineered system that pumps up the hill. I happen to know the details of what they have been through trying to get a system approved and each time they think they have it settled something else pops up. To put it mildly, it has been a bureaucratic nightmare. I am not going to share all the details as I don't know how public the knowledge is. It was shared with me very recently by the current owners. They are currently using the nicest Porta Potty I have ever seen, but the key to success lies in the ability to serve food, but that can't happen until the septic is in place. That revenue stream is vital. You can't pay the bills selling gas, beer and ice. There is also a pretty nice apartment on the property but it can't be rented either until septic is in place. I encourage everybody to trade there. They are great local folks trying to make a living in a very tough economy. I would encourage them to use this forum more to self promote. It seem to work well for a few others.

And that's the rest of the story.

Name:	Crimson4Lif -	Reply
Subject:	Talk about headscratchers
Date:	8/22/2013 5:36:07 PM

Lifer....I see alot of good points in your comments, however I stated that APCO had no obligation to inform any of the people...what I was saying is but out of good will and morals before you take ownership of someone's 100k lake place you might want to let a word or two slip somewhere to someone and let the ball start rolling. Please tell me you understand how things get out. It happens everyday on all sorts of issues and no one knows how...it just happens. Well it could have "just happened". I never said they should have or were supposed to. If you want to prop them up as a company so willing to do it the right way for the people...they failed on this one. The way I found out about this is when the realtor called and stated she had an offer that she had to turn down and is taking our place off the market because ...... We were floored and from there we contacted the lessor and got more of the story. Within a weeks time we get a certified letter saying get your stuff out before 12/31 or it will be gone. I find that hard to swallow that some kind of "warning" could not have been given to the owners. The property is owned...the land is not. Maybe deeded is the wrong wording...how about the dwelling is owned but not the land. Does that help? And to say APCO is unconcerned with lawsuits coming at them, wow I would have never guessed that one. Like I said the lady involved has to have insurance and if it is the way it seems she has been negligent. That spells guilt in insurance terms. It was mentioned that it might be the store with the septic issues....I am not aware of all the information as nobody can seem to get the same information. It changes by conversation. What I can say is the septic permits that were supposed to be filed can not be found. Nice record keeping APCO....place has been there for 40 years and now the permits are needed? This is not the first or second time the contract had to be renewed. Nothing about this situation makes much sense...from the APCO to the lessor. I can only imagine what the bank attorney's are going to do...they have about 50 unsecured loans floating around right now. I feel so sorry for those folks right down from us that just sunk 100k in that place to retire at. Man this is fo sho messed up!

Name:	DJ -	Reply
Subject:	Talk about headscratchers
Date:	8/22/2013 6:11:55 PM

I am posting a link that you should get to and print as well as anyone you know in the park. The link is to APCO's licensee renewal, has links to all sorts of good information, go look at the distribution lists to see who all got copied, go to the documents for the pre-applaction as well. I feel really bad for everyone there I miss going there, we had the spot with the 16 foot diving board, the 8 foot dive tower on the dock, a killer screened in porch on the lakeside, it is in the little slough south of the Marina store. Some folks will remember me, those that I called in the middle of the niight to tell them thier roof had some damage from a storm and water was pouring into it, put up a tempary tarp that night, getting rocks out of a wave runner pump, helping to get a sunken boat back up and towed to the boat ramp. I was always willing to help everyone that needed it. I am hoping what I post in this link will help everyone in the parl, those that I know and those I don't know.

Good luck, I will be keeping tabs

URL: APCO link, public info email me if you need it after it is removed.

Name:	DJ -	Reply
Subject:	Another good link
Date:	8/22/2013 6:14:53 PM

Once it opens change the page number at the top to 41, better print this. The page number on the document is 36.

URL: Go to page 41 page number on document is 36

Name:	DJ -	Reply
Subject:	Another good link
Date:	8/22/2013 6:22:41 PM

Here's another map showing that the Marina, cabins and Boat ramp tagged as commercial recreation. Don't know how much this will help but it raises a lot of questions, this was filed a while ago.

URL: Planned or Not.

Name:	cartdude -	Reply
Subject:	Talk about headscratchers
Date:	8/22/2013 7:38:43 PM

For one thing the certified letter you received did not tell you to be out Dec.31, 2013 - it says you have through June of 2014. AP does not deal with you because you do not have a lease with them. The lady has a lease which in turn she leases the property to you. She could have let you known earlier but didn't. Your complaint should be with her about that issue.

I do not know where you get your information but none of these lots are deeded. You are renting someone else's land to put your mobile home on. Yes, many are worth more $ when being bought because they are already set up on the water compared to if you bought the same mobile home at the dealer.

Also, about the septic tank permit issue - thats the health department.

Going to the source - getting some answers would prove to be more productive in finding a solution than putting out false information.

Name:	Lifer -	Reply
Subject:	Talk about headscratchers
Date:	8/22/2013 7:54:29 PM

Messed up is putting it mildly. As for insurance I guess I just don't think there will be any to file against. If she doesn't have septic permits I doubt she has insurance. Besides I am afraid it will just be caveat emptor. Having had to recently fight for a piece of property I really do feel your pain. After giving a cursory glance at some of the links provided by DJ I think it might have been foreseeable if one had been paying attention. My question now is where are the HOBO's? They are supposedly looking out for the stakeholders. I guess they are a 1 issue group, water level. The land usage swaps have definitely changed since the original filing but I haven't heard a word about it till DJ provided the links today. Seems like HOBO's would have been all over that since it affects all stakeholders. Some more than others. I saw one new proposal that will certainly help one specific couple. Anyway I don't see it as a done DL if you guys stick together. I know someone pretty high up the food chain at APCO. I am going to contact him soon and see if he has any insight on the situation. If he does I will pass along any info I can get.

Name:	10toLife -	Reply
Subject:	I sure do.
Date:	8/22/2013 9:56:51 PM

Totally agree with your thoughts to support the folks running Bay Pine -- they are nice folks trying to make the best of the hand they were dealt. They seem very sure everything will be approved and they will be opening up an eatery by next season. Before we ever lived on Lake Martin we used to go to Bay Pine (back when "Ann" owned it) We didn't know them but it was close to a cabin we sometimes rented off Dennis Creek. I never noticed a smell… but it certainly looks 100 times better now than it did then. I don't have a problem with that clean up -- and am actually thankful APC does control sewage problems that will effect the lake.

When I say RL routinely obtains property in areas where APC closes doors on others-- it's not meant as a knock on RL; however, there is MOST DEFINITELY an alliance…. and there and has been since the Dam was built. Mr. Russell had the forethought to build his own dam near Alex City (for use at his mill) and sold his power plant and property to Alabama Power via negotiations with Thomas Martin. The two became famous friends and Russell was able to buy much of the shoreline from APC due to his previous negotiations. To his credit he did much to stop erosion of farm land around the shoreline by planting trees and using other such measures. ( everyone probably already knows this)

Russell made Lake Martin what it is and continues to do so today. It will be what they want it to be and no one else has the money or connections to challenge them. It's the way of the world. I really don't have a dog in the fight-- but for someone to say there is not an alliance is absurd. Time will tell and we will all see what happens with the APC's land at Pleasure Point. No matter what happens it's really sad for those people and I am sure they are all just sick about it.

Name:	spyke420 -	Reply
Subject:	look on the brite side
Date:	8/24/2013 12:27:09 PM

If this isnt resolved and the powers that be do build they're bridge we won't have to go all the way to the rock to get our thrills!

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