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Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	"Submissive" wives-answer to happy marriages?
Date:	12/12/2013 11:09:39 AM

Read an interesting article in the UK Guardian about a book in Spain that makes the argument that being "submissive" to the husband and the husband loving and protecting the wife are key to a happy marriage. Predictably, the ugly feminists and self-castrated metrosexual men are burning the book and demanding that it be outlawed. Apparently they can't handle an open conversation about what makes for a happy marriage that takes into account the unique differences between men and women.

Reminds me of a very interesting book called "Fascinating Womanhood" that was written long ago had many of the same observations that this book espouses. Of course one would have to understand the concept of submissiveness in this context in order to give it a fair hearing. Unfortunately, that kind of rational thought is decidedly absent in left wing nuts and radical feminists.

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	"Submissive" wives-answer to happy marriages?
Date:	12/12/2013 12:10:34 PM

Does your lovely wife enjoy being a submissive wife?

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	"Submissive" wives-answer to happy marriages?
Date:	12/12/2013 1:16:41 PM

Is that the best you can come up with? Seems to me in an age of failed marriages and the incontrovertible evidence that it harms society and children in particular that this is a topic worthy of conversation. Engage intelligently or go trolling elsewhere.

You can always join your fellow left wing nuts and head to the jokes forum.

Name:	MAJ USA RET -	Reply
Subject:	Submissiveness and slavery are two different deals
Date:	12/12/2013 5:57:45 PM (updated 12/12/2013 6:03:52 PM)

As a writer, it is my responsibility to KNOW my characters. The best writers know and respond to the needs of men and women. Readers need to identify with my characters.

- -

A doctor who was studying marriage counseling noticed that it was basically ineffective… a crap shoot.* He began to notice a pattern in the unmet expectations of failing relationships. He decided to do a statistically significant survey of successful relationships. He also decided to make the sample population so large that he could have a 99% confidence in the outcome. To that end, he conducted a survey of thousands of men and women.

- -

With respect to most women, the following are, in order, their top five expectations:

- -

1 – Affection – Without fail, women want affection. This is the top producer of romance. Affection is cuddling, and cute nick names, and childishness in each other’s presence. Affection is random kissing and touching. Affection is that perfect glass of deep red wine at sunset. This very same need is expressed in grown women sleeping with stuffed toys.

- -

2 – Conversation – This IS NUMBER TWO! Women want mutual verbal expression. They want to TALK about what is going on in their life… and yours. They do not usually want you to line up the problems and engineer a solution(s). This need is deeper than that. Before you assume there is a problem to be solved, finish listening. The key here, is to listen… not act… unless she specifically asks you to act on something. Before you charge off to save her from the dragon, ask her if she wants you to do that. When it comes to hearing a woman talk, most men are “engineers.”

- -

3 – Commitment - There must be an underlying, unspoken, faith that he is focused on her and no one else. He is either hers… or not hers. If he is not hers and hers alone, stop reading… the other two don’t matter and won’t happen anyway… and the first two above… are insincere.

- -

4 – Security – Despite what anyone says, especially coming from a feminist, women are programmed to seek a reliable, dependable, safe place to be. Even if he can’t provide this in an absolute sense, if he is committed to taking her there, she will stand by him all of the way. [The feminists hate this one. They can’t get 1 and 3 and their version of 2 sounds like squeaky brakes.]

- -

5 – Forthrightness – Strange, No? But women want to believe that he is being straight with them. They want to trust every word that comes to them from his mouth. This need is so strong that some women will believe bald faced lies because they want to. I’ll bet that you don’t have to reflect very long to name a woman like this.

- -

With respect to men’s needs:

- -

1 - Sexual fulfillment - Women, just because you are not interested in making love to your man doesn’t mean he is not interested in making love to you. If he can’t be with the one he chooses, don’t begrudge his other choices.
- -

2 - Recreational companionship - If someone else of the opposite sex joins him in his favorite recreational activities, you are at risk that he might fall in love with that person. If you are not together when you are enjoying yourselves the most, you are squandering an opportunity to bond.

- -

3 - Attractive spouse - Have you stopped dressing for him? Did you cut your hair because it was inconvenient? Do you know your BMI or WHR? Is polyester your new favorite fabric? Do you have a full length mirror in your house? What does he see?

- -

4 - Domestic support - He needs a home just as much as you do. What is his home like?

- -

5 - Admiration - If you think bravado is an indicator of a man’s self-esteem, then you don’t need to admire him anymore.

- -

If a man and his woman see submissiveness in the above conditions… and they both agree on their responsibilities to one another… then “being submissive” is nobody else’s business but theirs. I am sure that many who consider the topic of this thread are drawn to the haunting thesis of “Fifty Shades of Grey.” But, rarely is the “sub” not in control of the relationship. If he or she is not… then it is slavery.

- -

* Harley, William F., Jr., Pd.D., 1986, His Needs, Her Needs, Fleming H Revell Co; Thirty-first printing, April 1993 edition (June 1, 1986), ISBN-10: 0800714784, ISBN-13: 978-0800714789

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Submissiveness and slavery are two different deals
Date:	12/12/2013 8:56:06 PM

Interesting work that I think captures a lot. When people ask me how we made it to 30 years of a happy marriage I tell them the secret is each spouse wants the best for the other and that means each is focused on fulfilling the needs of the other instead of thinking what is in it for them and are willing to sacrifice for the other. A priest I know well who spent years in marriage counseling told me that one of the biggest obstacles to reconciliation was when one or both spouses were no longer loyal to the other. Not in the sense of infidelity but for example, would not defend their spouse when someone criticized them or made jokes at their expense. He also had another great retort when someone would ask what could a person that never married know about marriage. He would say, most people only know one marriage but he knows hundreds and spouses, women in particular would tell him things they would never dare tell their spouse. But the key here is understanding the meaning of submissiveness in the context of a marriage. Many of the needs of men are fulfilled by a wife submissive to those needs and not fixated on what is in it for her. And vice versa, meeting her needs means sacrifice and doing what does not come naturally. If both spouses approach a marriage with this goal in mind, if they remain loyal to each other (and not just basic fidelity but much deeper) and they want what is best for the other it usually works. Also helps immensely to pray together and play together. But the reason for my post was not so much to focus on what she put I her book but also to point out the visceral reaction of the militant feminists who could never find the intellectual honesty to admit that there may actually be something to the concept of submissiveness in its proper perspective. Let men be men and the head of the household and women be women as the chief nurturer. It actually works.

Name:	Tall Cotton -	Reply
Subject:	"Submissive" wives-answer to happy marriages?
Date:	12/13/2013 2:17:03 PM

There is a much earlier book that espouses this same pattern. It is Ephesians, Chapter 5, verses 22 and following in the New Testament of the Bible.

Name:	MAJ USA RET -	Reply
Subject:	Paul's advice for happy marriages?
Date:	12/13/2013 4:39:15 PM

I care very little for the letters of the SELF PROCLAIMED apostle. It is MY belief that Paul’s words served to scramble those of Christ. Upon assuming the pulpit of apostletude… Paul immediately began rule making and dictating. - - Where Christ simplified and emphasized the power of grace… Paul complicated… inconsistently I might add… and emphasized works and compliance. Let me cite an example where even you might be confused and disturbed by Paul’s theology: 1Corinthians Chapter 7. Whew! Spare me. - - Give thanks that the Church was built upon the rock (Peter).

Name:	MAJ USA RET -	Reply
Subject:	Submissiveness and slavery are two different deals
Date:	12/13/2013 4:44:18 PM

MM, You make an important point emphasized by Dr. Harley - It is imperative that you learn and supply the needs of your spouse. You should leave it to her to know and focus on your needs.

Name:	Tall Cotton -	Reply
Subject:	Paul's advice for happy marriages?
Date:	12/13/2013 10:24:02 PM

Whether you care for Paul's words or not, even the original report posted agrees with them.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Paul's advice for happy marriages?
Date:	12/14/2013 11:40:40 AM

Maj, I too find Paul a little off but there are lots of good things in his letters. I think the bigger problem is some sects emphasize Paul because he doesn't emphasize the life of Christ like Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. But the Church included Paul in the canon so there is a lot to profit from in his writings assuming they are properly understood and taken in context with the rest of the bible. One thing for sure, he is hard to read at mass in the way he structures his sentences. :-). Either way I totally agree that we should thank God for Peter. He is truly the rock. And no it is not, I am Rock and upon this rock I will build my Church......that one always cracks me up. Very similar to the tortured explanations of John 6. Painful to listen to the attempts...

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