Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	More on Obamacare costs soaring
Date:	7/6/2015 12:26:12 PM

From the NY Times....so it may not be correct.

"Health insurance companies around the country are seeking rate increases of 20 percent to 40 percent or more, saying their new customers under the Affordable Care Act turned out to be sicker than expected. Federal officials say they are determined to see that the requests are scaled back."

Yet another prediction of the inevitable impact of Obamacare comes to pass.  Duh!

Now lets wait for the left wing nuts to tell us that there are no Death Panels.  Forty-nine of fifty predictions about the negative consequences of Obamacare come true and they will be screaming that one hasn't.....yet.  In every country where you have health insurance provided by or through the federal government you ahve rationing.  It will take time....it is coming.....and when some group of unelected govt officials tell them they don't deserve the treatment they need they will finally realize what Obama meant when he said that Grandma needs to take the blue pill instead......

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	More on Obamacare costs soaring
Date:	7/6/2015 6:07:07 PM

"more people were sicker than expected".....did they really think that people who have had no health insurance would then not use it once they had it and were paying for it?  Insurance companies love to raise rates, and this just sounds like an excuse to gouge the customers.  The predictability model they used must have been deeply flawed to prompt those kinds of increases after the first year. 

Name:	au67 -	Reply
Subject:	More on Obamacare costs soaring
Date:	7/6/2015 7:25:29 PM

They may not have had health insurance, but they had health care available.  All they had to do was go to the emergency room.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	More on Obamacare costs soaring
Date:	7/6/2015 9:09:52 PM

You are right.  But I suspect that people took advantage of having health care to get some preventive car.

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Au67 states a fact for a change
Date:	7/6/2015 9:41:49 PM (updated 7/6/2015 9:44:51 PM)

"They may not have had health insurance but the do have health care available...all they had to do was go to the emergency room."

You are correct...now, do you really think that is a good thing, is that the way it should be in the United States of America in 2015?

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	Au67 states a fact for a change
Date:	7/7/2015 12:06:12 AM

The Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act (EMTALA)[1] is a U.S. Act of Congress passed in 1986 and signed into law by President Ronald Reagan. It requires hospitals to provide care to anyone needing emergency healthcare treatment regardless of citizenship, legal status or ability to pay. This is the reason illegals are entitled to the same care in the ER as a citizen.

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	Some Other Facts
Date:	7/7/2015 12:07:57 AM

Alabama is one of just five states that doesn’t conduct a state-based review of proposed rate changes.  In Alabama, HHS is responsible for reviewing proposed rates. Obamacare requires that for individual coverage at least 80% of the premium must be used for claims. If is is less, the difference is rebated back to the Insured. There is NO gouging as Hound implies.

Blue Cross of Alabama has requested increases that range from 11% for the low plan to 70% for the highest coverage Platinum Plan. The pricing model was way off for the plans with the lowest deductibles such as the Platinum Plan. I suspect if the increase is approved for the Platinum Plan, many will drop down to a lesser plan and pay more out of pocket.

This is similar to the introduction of dental coverage and long term care. Everyone with pre existing dental problems used it when it was first offered. Companies lost a lot of money in the early years. The same was true with Long Term Care. When new coverage is first offered, assumptions are made in order to price coverage and then the marketing departments try to get the rates lowered so they can get market share. The larger the market share the better the companies can negotiate lower rates with doctors and hospitals. After a year or 2, you will see the rate increases level off and, will for the most part, be a reflection of projected medical costs for the next year rather than expected utilization due to pre existing conditions.

Name:	au67 -	Reply
Subject:	Au67 states a fact for a change
Date:	7/7/2015 8:23:08 AM

Emergency room usage has increased under Obamacare.  That bit of news from USAtoday.

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Sorry Au67
Date:	7/7/2015 9:03:29 AM (updated 7/7/2015 9:04:40 AM)

but that does not answer my question.  Of course getting the most extreme bunch of this forum to ever give an intellegent reply to a serious inquiry is about as likely as hell freezing over.  If you would at least first answer the question and then bash Obama that would be progress as well as shocking!

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	More on Obamacare costs soaring
Date:	7/7/2015 9:24:11 AM

Hence the "duh".  When you allow people to obtain access to health insurance after they get sick that is exactly what they will do......wait until they get sick and then sign up.  Until then the rational choice was to pay the penalty......oh, I am sorry Chief Justice Roberts, the tax......which was called a penalty in the law, claimed to be a penalty by the authors of the law and by dear leader.

Of course they were sicker.  That was the whole point and just one of many, many reasons this law should be repealed and replaced by sensible reforms as has been proposed and passed many times by the GOP House.  So the real question is whether having sick people without insurance acccess health care through the ER or by giving them the ability to buy insurance after they fall ill.  We now know the answer.  Prior to Obamacare insurance rates rose much less than they do under Obamacare.  Oh, and we now know for the GAO that the deficit in Medicare is up to a paltry $28 trillion......government at its finest.  Oh, and visits to the ER have actually increased since the passage of Obamacare.  

It was all a lie and doomed to fail and Americans are paying the price once again for government distortion of what should be a free market.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	More on Obamacare costs soaring
Date:	7/7/2015 9:41:35 AM

So you believe that sick people should have no other health care options than the ER? 

I suspect that a lot of people had pre-existing illnesses before they had health care - things like high blood pressure, diabetes, gall bladder disease, COPD - things that don't usually send you to the ER; but after they had health care, they would seek medical attention and get treatment.  BTW, have you ever been to the ER and waited hours (those of us who have always had health care), behind all these uninsured sick people?  Get them out of the ER, and our wait would not be as long. 

MM, you know as well as I do that they will not be able to repeal Obamacare, regardless of what they say.  So much money has been spent implementing all the systems, in hospitals, Drs. offices and in the insurance companies to drop it like a hot potato.  At best, we may see them modify it a bit, but the ship has sailed on Obamacare.  And insurance companies now have tons of new customers upon whom they can raise their rates.  And I suspect that those that never had health insurance and now have health insurance have become addicted. 

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	More on Obamacare costs soaring
Date:	7/7/2015 10:04:32 AM

So you believe that sick people should have no other health care options than the ER? 

No, I do believe that people should be held accoutnable for their personal decisions and I should not have to pay for them to not buy health insurance until they need it.  Do you think your homeowners insurance company should be forced to sell insurance to someone whose house is on fire and then pay that claim?

I suspect that a lot of people had pre-existing illnesses before they had health care - things like high blood pressure, diabetes, gall bladder disease, COPD - things that don't usually send you to the ER; but after they had health care, they would seek medical attention and get treatment. BTW, have you ever been to the ER and waited hours (those of us who have always had health care), behind all these uninsured sick people? Get them out of the ER, and our wait would not be as long.  

More people are using the ER now that we have Obamacare than before.  That is a fact.  And yes, I have three children and have actually been to an ER on more than one occasion.  But this was another lie of Obamacare so its now worse and you are happy?  That makes zero sense.

MM, you know as well as I do that they will not be able to repeal Obamacare, regardless of what they say. So much money has been spent implementing all the systems, in hospitals, Drs. offices and in the insurance companies to drop it like a hot potato. At best, we may see them modify it a bit, but the ship has sailed on Obamacare. And insurance companies now have tons of new customers upon whom they can raise their rates. And I suspect that those that never had health insurance and now have health insurance have become addicted.  

You may be right but recall they said the same thing about welfare.  But when the GOP forced Slick Willie into going along it was changed dramatically.  Hard to believe you can claim it can't be changed because of all the systems in place but they changed all the systems to comply with the new law.  How does that work?  If they changed it once they can change again.  The only impediment to the repeal and replacement of Obamacare is the GOP control of the House, Senate and WH and having the will and courage to do the right thing.  And even if you get the former the bigger impediment is the GOP having the will and courage to do what is right.

Name:	au67 -	Reply
Subject:	Sorry Au67
Date:	7/7/2015 10:24:32 AM

You are correct...now, do you really think that is a good thing, is that the way it should be in the United States of America in 2015?

Compared to what????

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	More on Obamacare costs soaring
Date:	7/7/2015 2:41:46 PM

I believe in personal decisions too, but there are perfectly good working people who just have not had access to a group plan that they cn afford.  I'm not talking about low income workers, but middle class people with reasonably good jobs whose companies did not offer insurance.  I know some of these people and it isn't that they didn't get healthcare until they were sick - in fact, some of them had no idea that they had an illness.  I have one friend that in the past year has developed terrible migraine headaches and has been sent to various specialists and procedures trying to figure out why.  Up until Obamacare she didn't have insurance.  My BIL, who is a lawyer, once told me that most often people who file for bankruptsy are not those deadbeats, but people who did everything right until they were confronted by huge, unpayable medical bills. 

I really just don't see why you are so opposed to it.  I don't believe in socialized medicine, but I think there are many fair solutions between no insurance and socialized medicine.  I'm sure Obamacare can be tweaked or restructured a bit to make it workable.  And I do suspect that the insurance industry will be hard pressed to allow anyone to do away with Obamacare given the money spent to implement it. 

As far as the increase in ER - at least if more are going to the ER, their insurance is paying for it, unlike before when uninsured patients would default. 

BTW - do you have a solution for the violence racking Chicago?  From what I am reading, they could pick up an illegal firearm every hour and still not get them all.  (and no, I'm not in favor of gun control).

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	Hey Martini
Date:	7/7/2015 2:44:55 PM

Where was your great plan during the years that Bush was in office or during the years under Clinton that the Right had control of the House? After Hillay's plan went up in smoke, the Right had their chance. Rather, they did nothing and are just a reactive bunch of fools who suddenly have all the answers after Obamacare became law. You guys had your chance to develop a plan and punted. Now, you have to live with what ya got and continue tovote to  repeal for the 50th time like a bunch of misfits.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Asked and answered
Date:	7/7/2015 3:13:11 PM

Goofy, you are constantly raising this red herring and I have decimated it already.  Go look at the polls on the main concerns of Americans during the Bush years and health care reform barely registers.  The adults not interested in government control of health care were focused on other issues.  The only reason Dems go back to health care is their desire to control our lives.  Not exactly a GOP emphasis.

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	Asked and answered
Date:	7/7/2015 4:37:31 PM

But you have all the answers now to replace Obamacare. Why not just try and repeal and go back to free marketplace as it was before Obamacare????? Why are you always harping on a plan to replace Obamacare? 

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Pay close attention
Date:	7/7/2015 5:09:46 PM

I am a proponent of repealing Obamacare and replacing it with sensible reforms, not another version of Obamacare.  Just because Democrats are stupid and passed this horrendous law doesn't obligate the GOP to double down on stupid.  The only reason we now have a crisis is because of Obamacare.  Now it has to be fixed.  Before the mess your dear leader and the moron Dems in Congress (many of whom are no longer there as a result I might add with some delight) handed us there was no crisis.  We had the best health care system in the world and 85% of those polled were happy with their current insurance.  Had your beloved party actually proposed sensible reforms to deal with the real issues we might have had bipartisan reforms but instead they gave us a mess.  

Sorry GF, but the Dems own this lock, stock and barrel and it will take a lot for the GOP to be able to unwind it.  Go look at the polls Goofy and you will see that this is suddenly a bigger issue because of Obamacare.  Like the economy, Dems screw it up and the adults will eventually have to fix it.  And all this before the really bad things happen in 2016.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	More on Obamacare costs soaring
Date:	7/7/2015 5:16:18 PM

I am opposed to Obamacare because in all of history there is no example of more government control actually making anything cheaper or better.  And this law is no exception.  It is so flawed that it cannot be tweaked.  But you are right, insurance companies will complain loud and long about that but not because of the cost to change.  They do it all the time.  It will be because they like the idea of being a government contractor with guaranteed profits and not having to compete in a free market.  Also gives them a boogey man to blame for the cost increases and not having to make tough business decisions to stay competitive and profitable.  Follow the money......

As for Chicago, their only hope is to elect a mayor that puts criminals in jail ala what Guiliani did in NYC.  The problem in Chicago isn't guns, it's the culture and years of ruinous Democrat rule just like Detroit.  And you are right about gun control.  Chicago is already one of the most restrictive cities in the country.  How's that working out for them?

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	COMPARED TO WHAT!!!!!
Date:	7/7/2015 5:48:55 PM (updated 7/7/2015 6:04:53 PM)

Compared to EVERY other nation on the planet which has an advanced economy and high standard of living!! Now, will you please show you have the guts to answer the question! Do you think it is a good thing that in the United States of America in 2015 that some people have no choice but to go to the ER for health care? 

And, as for more people going to ER now, some of it is because many now have Obamacare insurance which will pay for it...that is a good thing.  Also remember the millions caught in the catch 22 situation resulting from so many red states not adapting the Obamacare expansion of Medicaid, still have no fallback other than the ER.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Uh, MM
Date:	7/7/2015 8:59:17 PM

We no longer have the best health care nor the best schools in the world.   And that is a fact.

Name:	au67 -	Reply
Subject:	COMPARED TO WHAT!!!!!
Date:	7/7/2015 9:01:56 PM

I think emergency rooms are good.  Don't you?

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	You put your foot in it
Date:	7/7/2015 9:46:42 PM (updated 7/7/2015 9:52:32 PM)

in the 3d post in this stream by popping off that before Obamacare all Americans had healthcare available in the ER!

Your new post is not an answer and you know it.  Here it is again...completely unrelated to your opinion of Obama or Obamacare, do you yourself think it is acceptable that in this nation in this century it is OK for the ER to be the only healthcare alternative available for millions of your fellow citizens?? Maybe I should be asking do you read English? 

Certainly Emergengy Rooms are "good"...for emergencies and trauma cases and we need more.  We used to have more until many hospitals closed them because it was not economically possible to keep them open and have to continue to serve those who had no alternative but could not afford to pay.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Agree on schools but not on health care
Date:	7/8/2015 8:21:59 AM (updated 7/8/2015 8:48:03 AM)

Our health care system is still the best in the world......maybe not our insurance system, especially now.  Oh and by schools I mean our primary and secondary.  We are still the country of choice for university.

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	US has best health care
Date:	7/8/2015 9:13:05 AM (updated 7/8/2015 9:14:19 AM)

if you have a very serious illness and extremely good insurance and/or unlimited funds.  If not there is always prayer.  Every European nation and many others worldwide have measurably better overall healthcare outcomes than the US and they get it at anywhere from 1/3d to 2/3ds the expense.  These are facts.  I will be happy to listen to and consider any non-"I hate Obama" reasons, explanations or rebuttals.

Name:	au67 -	Reply
Subject:	You put your foot in it
Date:	7/8/2015 9:41:09 AM

Don't direct your animus toward me for not participating in your silly game of "answer my question."  I simply pointed out a story on emergency room usage since Obamacare was implemented.  I am not the problem and have no obligation to provide you a thesis on the most efficient use of emergency rooms in the United States.  Have a nice day.

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Touchy touchy
Date:	7/8/2015 9:46:04 AM (updated 7/8/2015 9:52:51 AM)

In fact NO, you didn't point out a story about ER usage as a first post...your first post made the statement that all have access to healthcare via the ER.  It is your original post that prompted my very reasonable "question", not a "silly game". I must have hit a nerve.  Amazing how "conservatives" who so love to dish it out are so unable to take what is dished to them.  You silence speaks volumns...you have a nice day too.

Oh, BTW, not an insignicant number of your fellow citizens believe you, or at least your attitude, is very much a part of the problem!

Name:	au67 -	Reply
Subject:	Touchy touchy
Date:	7/8/2015 10:18:07 AM

I assume  that "insignicant number of your fellow citizens" you mention are the same ones that elected Barack Obama for two terms.

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Au67
Date:	7/8/2015 8:26:39 PM (updated 7/8/2015 8:29:08 PM)

Your own "question" proves my point!!

It must really chap you to say the words "elected Obama for two terms".  But, that's how we do it here!