Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Den of Thieves
Date:	4/19/2016 8:11:20 PM

Being in the DC area during a primary is "interesting".  All the TV ads are for Dems, anti gun and NRA, pro-choice, and Max freebies from the guvmint.  If one were to look at the population in the area it would be easy to see why.  The number of citizens actually born in the US is the minority.  I guess they are counting on the folks in the Deep South and Midwest to fund their freebies.  What I don't get is the candidate for Congress in Maryland who is richer than sin because of his success in the business world, yet spouts the Dem rhetoric.  Folks up here live in more of a dream world than even the nuts in California.

Name:	lakngulf -	Reply
Subject:	Den of Thieves
Date:	4/19/2016 8:18:16 PM

I am amazed each day how different my thoughts and priorities are from what appears to be the mainstream leaning of American folk.  I know I am conservative, believe in hard work, think it is imperative to give in order to get, and pay my taxes, but WOW how foreign are the political leanings of today.

Maybe Bernie will win and (wait, wait  I am from the South and you said I had to pay).  No fair

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Den of Thieves
Date:	4/19/2016 9:15:55 PM

You are right, it is a bigger demographic mix in the DC area, although who knows how many of them can vote? 

But you get a real mix of people there - hardly anyone is from there, and there are people from all over the country that have moved there.  I suspect you would find a bigger population of Democrats right now because of the Democratic Administration.  Virginia politics is a real mixed bag.  I think it could go either way.   A lot of my VA friends were impressed with Ben Carson to start with. 

One thing you can be sure of  - there are a lot of well educated voters in that area, particularly in Fairfax, Arlington and around the Charlotteville area so it is unlikely that they will be dazzled by personality.  But rhetoric about how government employees have ruined the country is not going to play at all; nor will cuts to military and VA benefits. 

Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	Den of Thieves
Date:	4/20/2016 10:29:22 AM

I think you may be over-reacting to the political fluff that’s on display during primary season.   In contrast to here in Alabama, you were seeing a lot of ads in support of Democratic Party ideas that just don’t get the same air-time around here.   Not because those ideas aren’t relevant,  but because the Republicans are firmly in charge in Alabama.     I have the same reaction to seeing all those hyper-conservative ads during election season around here.

My first reaction to what you said is that it reminded me of  a dispatch from behind enemy lines,  a warning to us about the threats that those ideas (and people) pose to our way of life.   I disagree.   I also think that part of our problem is that we are prone to see stark divisions between “us and them”,  imagining that there are 2 easily defined sides in the US today:   Makers & Takers.     Thing is, that is just a blunt & inexact concept that works best to keep us angry at “the others” … and not coincidentally tends to rally people around defensive,  sometimes hostile, points of view.   Encouraging that POV is straight out of the think tanks of Conservative policy makers,  and not an idea that can ever lead to positive political change in my opinion.    

My explanation for what you saw:   Demographically, the DC area is a stronghold of the Democratic party.   It’s an international city with more foreign born people than average, but if they aren’t US citizens they are not eligible for  any social welfare programs.     It also has the largest concentration of Black people, I believe.   (I recently read that Maryland has the largest percentage of Black people of any “northern” state).   Ads about gun control,  reproductive rights, and income disparities are just what we Progressives believe in… not a call to arms so that we can destroy anybody’s way of life.

When we make that distinction between Makers & Takers, we should be aware that as Alabamians, we are the Takers.    Alabama receives more federal dollars than we contribute in tax revenue, and those federal dollars are what we use to build our roads,  protect the quality of our air & water, run our schools, & provide basic medical care to elderly and poor people.    

To your last point, I don’t know the politician you are referring to, but it does please me to hear when people become successful in this economy and then  make it a point to continue to be sensitive to and aware of all those people who have not been as fortunate.   I think of that as a really good example of citizenship.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Copperline
Date:	4/20/2016 1:41:10 PM

I think you raised some excellent points.  The District  of Columbia is primarily black and I do believe that the most concentrated area of blacks is in Prince George's County MD.  But we need to keep in mind that these are not "welfare" blacks, but the vast majority are white collar professionals.  Yes it is true the Southeast in Washington DC, Anicostia, is a strong hold of what one might think of as crime ridden inner city welfare blacks.  I have to say that before I moved South, most of my exposure to the black commuity was of white collar professionals who were raising their kids to go to college. Unfortunately the biggest exposure to the black community here in the South, seems to be the uneducated or low skilled balck workers, and more likely to be getting public assistance or social security disability. 

I believe that you are correct that Alabama skews dramatically right.  In Northern VA (and I lived there for 20 years), more people are moderate in their political views.  Most work for the government or in support of the government, where they are responsible for making policy and implementing policies of both political affliations  and get to see the best and worst of both parties.  They are required to be apolitical and serve whatever Administration is in power.  I doubt you will find most people to be skewed dramatically right or left, unless they came to Washington to serve a particular political persuasion. 

And I don't think you can draw any conclusions about political leanings based on the TV advertising.  But keep in mind that many political and non-politcal organizations are headquartered in Washington and have lobbyists fronting their views.  Since both the organization and the lobbyists are in the DC area, it stands to reason that you will see more political ads representing a variety of positions in the DC area. 

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Den of Thieves
Date:	4/20/2016 2:18:50 PM

Mr H I know it will not be welcome news, but it is a fact that since the end of WWII the growth of new jobs, rise in the stock market, increase in corporate profits and creation of new businesses have been substantially stronger during the years of Democratic Administrations than Republican.  Further, when it comes to using taxes from the South or Midwest to pay the ne'er-do-well liberals in DC think again.  Mostly red states such as AL, GA, MS and the Carolinas receive much more back than they pay in taxes while those "liberal" moochers in MA, NY, CA and IL get back much less than they send.

Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	Copperline
Date:	4/20/2016 3:35:43 PM

You know, I think we would better understand crime if we first talked about the role of poverty, not race, as the primary driver.  Just an observation......

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	Arch
Date:	4/20/2016 4:15:55 PM

Why don't you tell us why more Fed money comes to the Deep South than is paid in taxes.  Don't give us the party line, tell us WHY?

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Copperline
Date:	4/20/2016 4:40:26 PM

I don't know if I can agree with you on that one.  Yes, I agree that poverty is a the root it in a lot of crimes.  We should stop looking at the symtoms of the problem ( drug addiction, drug dealing, gang violence) and start looking at the real problem which is poverty and perceived lack of opportunity.   But when you look at who is doing the crimes most often, it is blacks, which is why they are often profiled.  Virtually all of the murders in Montgomery seem to take place in the black community.   The same is true for B'ham, Atlanta and any other city.  I'm not a racist by any stretch of the imagination, but I think that refusing to admit who is doing most of the crime, and who is put in jail for these crimes.  I don't agree with thost that say that blacks are put in jail for crime much more often than whites.  And I don't agree with Obama's approach that we should be releasing criminals that are "only" in jail for "minor" crimes like drug distribution or theft.  Breaking the law is breaking the law.  Most of these people have multiple arrests, which says to me that they are not learning from their actions. 

One thing, I was living in Northern VA when the real estate and home construction as at its peak.  This brought a lot of Central Americans into the area for jobs, and with it, they brought gang violence, particularly the brutal MS-13 out of El Salvador.  And the places that they resided was a hot bed for violent crimes.  I guess the bright spot is that they didn't often target any other community than their own. 

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Den of Thieves
Date:	4/20/2016 4:42:16 PM

And don't forget that our very own Senator Shelby is king of the pork barrel. Yes, that is out tax dollars being handed out to his cronies and big supporters in the state. 

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	Oh, horse hockey...
Date:	4/20/2016 5:42:29 PM (updated 4/20/2016 5:42:58 PM)

Name three of Shelby's pork barrel gifts to Alabama.  You know it's all the free stuff heaped on the welfare class, that pays no tax, and votes dimokrap.

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Arch
Date:	4/20/2016 10:38:16 PM (updated 4/20/2016 10:40:41 PM)

I'm sure you think it is because the South has more "welfare Queens" and to some extent that is right, but it is also because the South has more than its share of military and other installations that bring in huge federal largesse and because the average income is below the national average which reduces taxes paid.  None of it changes the bottom line...AL pays less than it gets, MA pays more than it gets!! You can call it the "liberal" party line if it make you all warm and cuddle, I call it what is is...economic fact!

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	Arch
Date:	4/21/2016 8:26:21 AM

Take an honest look at demographics of the Deep South and you will find you answer.  Yes, it's about people allowed to live a life content and happy with gubment free stuff. Military bases are just about all closed, and spending for the military is nonexistent thanks to o-BAMA. Don't blame the real citizens of the south for some of its problems created by dimokraps in the 70s.

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Arch
Date:	4/21/2016 9:50:15 AM (updated 4/21/2016 9:55:17 AM)

Wrong as usual Wixie...the discrepancy between tax monies received vs taxes paid is considerably less pronounced in the South today than it was 50 years ago.  Another thing your rants don't explain...true, in AL, GA, and the 3 other deep south states the majority of the welfare recepiants are Black, but not so in TN, NC, KY, AR and the other border states where your white cousins make up the majority of welfare clients but the states have a similar imbalance.  I am beginning to think GF may be right when he questions your opinion about race.

PS:  You check the demographics of those border states where your welfare queen cousins are voting overwhelmingly Rethuglican while accepting the federal "handout".

Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	Arch
Date:	4/21/2016 11:14:44 AM

I can think of a couple of good reasons why the South pays less taxes than it recieves in Federal tax dollars.... history, education levels and industrial development.       Here in Alabama, the government struggles to give juicy tax incentives to business/industry to locate here... but frequently fails to attract desireable businesses because we simply have an under-educated work force.     Low skilled workers = low pay jobs, and not too many of them.   

Poverty has been a historical fact in the South since before the Civil War when the economy was based on the presence of low cost slave labor.   After Emancipation, those slaves did not quickly and easily integrate & come to par with the white citizens who maintained dominance thru what we call "institutional racism"... the systematic discrimination against them that restricted their options.   In fact, the integration of our schools didn't even begin until 45 years ago, until that time there were 2 school systems.   The "black" school system was always an afterthought... underfunded & neglected.     This, and the other social influences left over from slavery, stimulated the chronic poverty.

But we focus far too much on Black folks when we talk about welfare.   Most welfare recipients are white.   Look it up.   

Here is a link to an article that details the differences between Giver & Taker states...   Alabama gets around $3 in Federal dollars for every $1 we send to Washington in taxes.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/05/which-states-are-givers-and-which-are-takers/361668/

Simply put, the South gets more federal dollars because we NEED them to operate our infrastructure... and left to our own without federal dollars, we would not be able to maintain our overall standard of living, necessary infrastructure, nor fund the educational system we need to continue to grow.   Without Fed dollars, we fall farther behind.   That said, these historic trends don't get expelled easily or quickly, and we will have to continue to cope with them for years to come.      My point is that we can't cope with them very well if we think in terms of "Black folks" causing the problem of poverty & crime. 

Our opinions that black folks contribute more to the problem than to the solution, that being black is somehow causing them to be more criminal,  content to be less educated & unwilling to work, more interested in being lazy & dependent on "government  handouts".... all of that is symptomatic of that Institutional Racism we inherited.  It's our (white folks) historic prejudice against them... and serves no good purpose.

In fact, it makes the problem worse because it continues that crazy notion that there is an "us" and a "them".

Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	Copperline
Date:	4/21/2016 12:45:57 PM

My sense is that if you looked at crime rates by neighborhood without respect to race, you would find crime rates go up where poverty and population density are highest, and not due to racial makeup.    Crime rates in Alburqueque are highest in poor Hispanic neighborhoods, not predominently Black ones.   Crime rates in the DC area are in low income areas, not affluent ones whether their racial make-up is white, hispanic, black or asian.  

There really isn't any causal relationship between race and crime, and you can't understand what causes high crime areas unless you look at the influence of poverty.   The focus that we habitually place on race as a cause of crime is habit we inherited from our forbearers, it's a prime example of institutional racism in all of us.

Your points about the criminal justice system are worth talking about in another thread... it's going to be complicated.   However, I'd say that the fact that Alabama's prison system is at 200% occupancy, and that the sheer size of the US prison population is larger than the prison population in any other country in the world is pretty troubling.... and tells us that we need to do things very differently.   

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	Archidiot - - racist
Date:	4/21/2016 1:45:52 PM

Let me remind you of your post above which specifically mentioned AL, MS, GA in your rant about taxes collected being lower than Fed freebies being received.  You set the standard and then when it didn't fit your feeble argument you changed parameters, as usual.

As to your accusation that I am a racist, let me confirm to you that I do not suffer from liberal, white guilt.  I thrive on human responsibility.  You obviously suffer terribly from white guilt, so your opinionated krap to put down the South has no effect.  Good, responsible people of all races should be valued by society.  Irresponsibility must be discouraged by all people.  Period. 

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	Oh, horse hockey...
Date:	4/21/2016 1:45:55 PM

If you have to ask the question, then you need to get your head out of the sand.

Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	And then, there's this
Date:	4/21/2016 2:08:11 PM

Here is a link worth looking at.   It's genetic research on cancer that incidentally discovered that everyone is descended from Black people.

I post it here for folks that may want to revise their invitation list for this summer's family reunion.

https://www.facebook.com/1676440995975056/videos/1711566942462461/?fref=nf

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	Goofbu...question
Date:	4/21/2016 3:30:21 PM

I didn't ask a question.  Your point? ----btw, that's a question.

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	Copperwizard....
Date:	4/21/2016 3:36:58 PM

Brilliant deduction, wizard.  Where is the origin of man....Africa.  Are there any light skinned Africans?  NO.  So light skinned humans EVOLVED from Africans.  I capitalized EVOLVED, because that's the word used by your wizard, facebook scientist.  Gee, wonder why that scientist used a word like evolved in that context...must have been a racist.

Oh, if you learn to use the link feature of this website correctly, we won't have to copy and paste.

Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	Wix....
Date:	4/21/2016 4:09:22 PM

Sounds like you took the research to be some sort of insult.

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	C-wizard....
Date:	4/21/2016 4:26:31 PM

Please tell me where you got the idea that I was insulted.  The Y-tube said absolutely nothing that is not common knowledge to educated, aware people.  I did find it unusual that he would say the lightskinned people EVOLVED from black people.  Evolution is considered by most intelligent people means an improvement.....considering human evolution began with tiny creatures in the sea, your scientist is implying very plainly that he considers light skinned people evolved (improved) from black people, which would be deemed a racist statement in your liberal, white privilege world.

Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	C-wizard....
Date:	4/21/2016 4:30:22 PM

OK, not insulted.   Just trying to pick a fight, then.

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	C-wizard....
Date:	4/21/2016 6:00:18 PM

So my point is verified, huh?

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Wixie poo
Date:	4/21/2016 6:10:50 PM

I can alway count on you to be understanding, lovable and so so reasonable in all your comments.  You are a icon for all humanity!!!  Too bad you are so completely uninformed and closed minded!

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	C-wizard....
Date:	4/21/2016 6:19:24 PM (updated 4/21/2016 6:25:57 PM)

NO. You are crazy.  The first humanoids appeared in Africa and began to evolve.  Getting lighter was part of evolution not because it was an "improvement" but because it made sense as man ventured into cooler areas of the world where lighter skin made more sense biologically.  The people that stayed in Africa or moved to other equatorial climes evolved too...they became more "modern" as did all humanity but they did not become "lighter".  Do you equate becoming lighter with improvement?  If so you do need to answer GF's oft asked question! 

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	Goofbu...question
Date:	4/21/2016 6:26:29 PM

"Name three of Shelby's pork barrel gifts to Alabama." I consider this a question...and yes your head is still in the sand.

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	A-idiot....
Date:	4/21/2016 6:53:37 PM

Can you read at all.  My point is the researcher said EVOLVED, not me.  Are you really this dense, or do you just have convulsions when you are stupidly wrong.

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	Dumbgoofbutt
Date:	4/21/2016 6:56:57 PM

That is a directive not a question.  And it was not posted to you, but you are welcome to provide the requested information, but be very specific and correct, not your usual self.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Copperline
Date:	4/21/2016 10:18:10 PM

It's like what we tried to do during the war on drugs.  We tried to convince farmers in Latin Amrica to grow carrots instead of cocoa because it was more moral to grow carrots.  But that meant nothing to them - they got more money for the cocoa - for them it was not a moral issue, but one of economics, because cocoa put the food on the table and paid the rent.  We wanted them to grasp "self fulfillment" when they were still down at the physical level of Maslow's Law. 

It is true that crime levels are highest in those areas where poverty is the highest. But not everyone who is poor is committing crimes. I believe that committing crimes is more socially acceptable in some cultures than in others.  And wouldn't you agree that black insistence on being called "African American" (when in fact, most of them have never been to Africa and have not have any ties to Africa) and starts groups like "Black Lives Matter".  (well, yes they do, but so do all lives).  They are attempting to create a racial divide.  You do not find Hispanics doing that, which is another group that is no stranger to poverty. 

But knowing that you have been a social work professional, perhaps you have a better view of all of this than I do. 

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	Dumbgoofbutt
Date:	4/21/2016 10:50:00 PM

You must be one of those elite liberals...it was a directive.......hell, it was a question......you asked him to name the pork. Directives are what the master said to his slaves. Your "directive" was no different than a Palin quesion. And we know you iodolize Moose Mom. 

Are you trying to show some redneck class by suggesting we should only respond to "directives"?

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	No Wiximbecile
Date:	4/22/2016 6:44:24 AM (updated 4/22/2016 6:49:10 AM)

The question is can you read at all?  Apparently not.  My specific question after my initial comment was to ask whether YOU agreed with the hypothisis that "evolving lighter" was an "improvement".  Talk about a convulsive brain!!  Of course your problem could also be lack of evolution...you demonstrate on a regular basis you must among the small tribe of surviving Neanderthals roaming central AL!!

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	Moose Mom??
Date:	4/22/2016 8:40:24 AM

That's cute.  But not nearly as definitive as MOO-CHELE!  Have a good rainy day...

Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	my thoughts on that
Date:	4/22/2016 11:10:01 AM

I don’t think my point of view is any better than anyone else.      It’s just my own.

I’ll use your example.   The Latin American farmer made his decision based on the economic realities he lived in, not because of his race or ethnic identity.     Faced with the effects of poverty and the choice between relieving some of the effects of that poverty…. verses doing what suited our wishes, he charted his course according to his immediate needs.     Of course, he was doing the “anti-social thing” & didn’t improve his life in our opinion.   From our point of view, he allies himself with an immoral, corrupt & criminal way of life….but to him it was the expedient, pragmatic & practical choice.  

Criminality is more acceptable within some portion of any culture, I suppose.    The question here is whether it is a racial trait of Black people.   I would say that there is nothing about being Black that causes you to be criminal, yes.      Of course, I would agree that not every poor person has to be a criminal.

If you wanted to understand the cultural conditions that cause increased criminal activity within any social group,  geographic region, or community… would you really just consider race?    I wouldn’t.   Race & ethnic origin don’t create violence, criminality, high rates of illegitimate births, and fragmented families….. poverty has that effect on people.   It really doesn’t matter what race you are…

So, I would say that if you could magically transform everybody in Mountain Brook into a Black person, and every person in the Gate City housing project into a White person….. Gate City would still be crime ridden and Mountain Brook would be just like it is today.   Except maybe with better music.

I see no reason to object to a Black person calling themselves African American, why would I?    I don’t object when my wife talks about her Cherokee grandmother and jokes she is a native American.     I don’t object to a group organizing themselves for the purpose of civil protests and calling themselves Black Lives Matter, even though I think it All Lives Matter works pretty well, too.     I’m not likely to be offended by a group that wants to bring attention to the number of unarmed Black men who have been shot by policemen, but I am alarmed by groups that organize themselves in order to bring weapons into restaurants, churches, and schools.     But that’s just me.

It’s interesting to imagine what would happen if the NRA and various Separatist/Patriot groups suddenly became Black organizations devoted to the very same goals.   Likely that would cause a fundamental shift in the way we perceive them…..    Because of ingrained racial prejudices, we would then see those groups as far more dangerous than when we think of them as predominantly white.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	my thoughts on that
Date:	4/22/2016 12:46:53 PM

Food for thought. Thank you.   Would like to think on this some more. 

Name:	Council Rock Doc -	Reply
Subject:	Arch
Date:	4/22/2016 1:13:41 PM

Archie,

You know better than to simply judge a book by its cover.  Poverty levels are significantly higher here in the south than your blue states.  And while it is true that the more well off tend to vote Republican, they also tend to get out and vote.  So to equate how a state votes as a true barometer of Federal dollars spent in that state is quite misleading and disingenuous.

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	Most naive, immature, revealing post
Date:	4/22/2016 7:54:23 PM

I have ever seen on any forum.  Copper, are you really this out of touch with reality?  It amazes me that a human can exist without the cognitive ability to observe, reason, and realize the world around them. 

Do you actually think most people make a judgement of people simply because of the color of their skin?  That's just plain stupid and immature.  Judgements by intelligent humans about their fellow man are made on the makeup of the person.  What is the worth of the person, not is he purple or green.  Worthless, undesirable people come in all colors.  It's not about color.  GEEZ.....

I am shocked that I have tried to communicate with someone so naive and stupid.  GEEZ.....

BTW, we don't hate o-BAMA because he's half black, we despise him for what he is, and represents, and danger he is to our country, and for what he has done to our country.  GEEZ....

Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	Most naive, immature, revealing post
Date:	4/22/2016 9:53:22 PM

What did I say that made you this Angry?

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	Most naive, immature, revealing post
Date:	4/23/2016 8:08:28 AM

That's not anger, it's just an emphatic factual observation.....

Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	Most naive, immature, revealing post
Date:	4/23/2016 10:56:25 AM

OK, not angry then.    How old are you?

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	Most naive, immature, revealing post
Date:	4/23/2016 12:10:58 PM

I'll be 13 next month.  To coin an oft used phrase by your idol, "What difference does that make?"

Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	Most naive, immature, revealing post
Date:	4/23/2016 1:49:35 PM

It makes a big difference in how we respond to your posts.  I understand better now.

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	Most naive, immature, revealing post
Date:	4/23/2016 2:44:19 PM

One must have cognitive abilities to communicate, regurgitation of liberal talking points does not count.....

Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	Most naive, immature, revealing post
Date:	4/23/2016 4:51:55 PM

Wix, you really do have a pretty good vocabulary for someone your age.   Lots of people around here are going to be pretty surprised that you got them into so many name-calling sessions with a 12 year old!      Happy birthday next month!

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	Most naive, immature, revealing post
Date:	4/23/2016 7:59:59 PM

Cool, when do you turn 65?

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Copper
Date:	4/23/2016 10:11:12 PM (updated 4/23/2016 10:15:23 PM)

Anyime anybody that doesn't think Barack Obama is the devil incarnate says anything that makes sense, especially common sense, "Young" Wix gets his knickers in a knot.  I suspect he is torn by the titanic three way struggle between his guilt complex, his paranoia and his inability to think that anybody who is not a rightwing nut could be intellegent.

BTW:  My granddaughter actually is 12 years old and makes infinitely more sense than Wix!

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Arch
Date:	4/23/2016 10:21:55 PM

Where did I say voting patterns have anything to do with it?  I simply point out a fact in response to counter another poster's comments about all the southern and mid-western taxpayers supporting the "liberal" lay-abouts.

BTW:  Google search to check out how those making over $500,000 a year voted in 2008 and 2012.

Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	in a couple more years
Date:	4/23/2016 11:41:54 PM

with any luck, about 3.

Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	Copper
Date:	4/24/2016 1:36:20 AM

Hey!  If you think you're 12,  you're 12.  

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	in a couple more years
Date:	4/24/2016 8:31:36 AM

Wow, you look much older....