Name:	lakngulf -	Reply
Subject:	Trump the birther
Date:	9/16/2016 2:34:22 PM

I am glad that DJT cleared up the mess that HRC's campaign started in 2008. 

Now I am going to consider Trump racist unless he clears up the Cruz birther controversy.

Name:	lakngulf -	Reply
Subject:	Trump the birther
Date:	9/16/2016 6:44:53 PM (updated 9/16/2016 7:06:44 PM)

I got into a Facebook discussion (errrr argument) about birther and racism, brought up Cruz and that did not go over well.  One person who I do not know had this on their timeline.  It is a quote from Robert Reich (labor guy I think from Clinton Admin)   He says 4 reasons but gives fives.   New math I guess.  It speaks to why the "Trump is a racist" campaign has ramped up.  And number 2 is great = would be great to get to the point that money does not buy elections.

Robert Reich

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Trump the birther
Date:	9/16/2016 9:11:09 PM

I thought I heard to day on the news that Trump has now said he believes Obama was born in the U.S.  I mean, he's almost out the door, so who really cares. 

I think that Trump may win.  I don't think he is the maniac that the Democrats try to paint him as.  I think there may be enough people who are fed up with the path we are on, to carry him into office.  He's kind of a character - and that used to be good, but we've all become so politically correct that hearing the remarks he makes we are like Pavlov's dogs and just freeze.  Some of our best Presidents have been "characters".  You have to be a little bit outrageous to think that you should run for President.  Does anyone else remember the uproar when GB, was running for VP, debated Geradine Ferraro, and then said that he thought he had "kicked a little a$$ last night".  But he did.

I have stopped posting anything about politics on FB.  A lot of my friends are very liberal - some unfriended over what  I have said about guns, two have unfriended me because I said that I didn't support paying reparations to the decendents of slaves, and a couple of others because I am a Trump supporter this go around.  I've become a pariah in my own community. :-)

Name:	rude evin -	Reply
Subject:	Trump the birther
Date:	9/16/2016 9:19:11 PM

Their loss.......sounds like it doesn't keep you up at night!!

Name:	lakngulf -	Reply
Subject:	Trump the birther
Date:	9/16/2016 9:25:03 PM

You are right, Trump made statement today.  That is what I was referring to = that he cleared up something HRC campaign started back in 2008.  But everyone on CNN and msnbc are claiming Trump racist for even dealing with birther issue.  My point is that Trump questioned Cruz birth as well, being in Canada, did that disqualify him, and Cruz is white.  Racism is inserted into the Trump birther deal because it fits the narrative for those who oppose him.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Trump the birther
Date:	9/16/2016 9:37:31 PM

Exactly right.  I have to say that up until this year, I have poo-poo'd  the "media bias", but this year I am convinced.  Sometimes in the morning, while I am having coffee, I flip around the news shows.  Between MSNBC and CNN, I have never heard a good word about Trump.  In fact, anything he says or does, it reported in detail and skewed.  So I just turn it off.  I was looking at my FB feed this afternoon and for every 15 posts, at least 13 will be something disparaging about Trump.  No wonder he doesn't have to spend money on advertising, everything he does or says gets free publicity, and it's working in his favor. 

Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	Trump the birther
Date:	9/16/2016 11:38:17 PM

Are Trump supporters simply going to overlook what has happened here?   Trump made the birther thing into his main marketing plank for several years, collecting & encouraging people to believe the President was an alien.... an imposter who had taken over the White House.   He used that story line to whip up lots of people... many here on this forum... who believed he was telling them the truth.

Now he finally says this.   OK, but now what?  Are we supposed to forget how he used this misleading junk on us?   He says he knows it wasn't true now.  I think the next questions should be "At what point in all this did you decide you were wrong?"   What specific piece of information, or conversation , or research finally arrived and changed your mind?"   

But really, one question should be "Do you think you owe an apology to all those people who heard you and believed you, & responded to your campaign suggestions with a great deal of outrage, suspicion & outright condemnation of the POTUS?"

Personally, I think Trump has come up with a marketing strategy that is somehow bringing people to hold contradictory opinions.   Trump is a man of character.   But Trump makes things up, uses these things, then casts them aside.   In order to support Trump, you have to ignore a lot of what you know, see & hear.

Better dust off your copy of Orwell's 1984 and remind yourself what "double-think" means.

Name:	rude evin -	Reply
Subject:	Ok CL...
Date:	9/17/2016 7:34:39 AM

Now apply your same logic to Hillary......"It was the video.....I released ALL of my work related emails.....I did not send any classified"......etc,etc,etc,etc,etc...and tell us your inner most thoughts...

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	Copper-krap*
Date:	9/17/2016 9:45:04 AM

With your dimokrap "talkin' point" forum, how many voters have you converted over to dimokraps?  I think NONE, would be the answer.  Try having an original thought for a pleasant change.

Name:	Buteye -	Reply
Subject:	Copper-krap*
Date:	9/17/2016 11:59:02 AM

You continue to show up at just the right time. Keep up the good work!!!!

Name:	Buteye -	Reply
Subject:	Trump the birther
Date:	9/17/2016 12:40:17 PM

You continue to ask numerous questions based on how you think others should think and act. I have responded to many of your thoughts and questions over the recent past but have received little or no response. When someone takes the time to offer their take on your posts, it seems easier for you to ignore rather than respond. Regarding your comment about Obama being an impostor, I don't necessarily think he's an impostor, but he warned us of "hope" and "change" and I do think he has taken over the White House. He claimed he would be the most transparent President when he became President and he has been the exact opposite. Lies about Obama Care, cloak and dagger when dealing with Iran on the proliferation of nuclear weapons and the secrecy in sending ransom money in exchange for the release persons being held there, refering to ISIS as the JV and that they are on the run, firing generals for failure to agree with him, having reports altered wich outlined the outcomes of military engagements, and the list goes.It would take a book to cover all of his missteps  and another book for you to cover all of his wonderful accomplishments.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Trump the birther
Date:	9/17/2016 4:59:53 PM

I voted for Obama, and I think he has been a failure.  He hasn't stopped the wars, didn't close Gitmo, the healthcare rollout was a disaster.  He has been a disaster at foreign policy.  He's made so many missteps with foreign leaders, I think he must have the stupidest, laziest staff ever (because it is normally the job of the staff to prepare him for meetings).  Remember when he bowed to the King of Saudi Arabia, gave the Queen a CD, now the Phillipines President publicly insulted him, the Chinese dissed him and Putin thinks he is a joke. 

There has been no transparency in his Administration, he's taking advice from Petreus, who is riding on the coattails of his war college theseus, which proved ineffective.  We're still mired in Iraq and now Syria. 

Domestically, we have had terrorist attacks.  Just today, 3 festivals in NJ, where I grew up had to be shut down for bomb threats and a bomb was exploded in a trash can, during a marathon.  We're got a bigger racial divide than we have had in years, Obama inappropriately commented on law enforcement matters, and has inserted the Justice Department, doing investigations that are the right of the state.

His optics have been terrible - playing golf while Baton Rouge was drowning, Michele taking lavish vacations and when he leaves office, he is renting a lavish house is Washington... now where did the money for that come from, given that they weren't rich when they took office.  No hope, no change, yes, we can, became no, we can't. Can't deal with Congress, that is for sure. 

And now he would have us vote for HRC, the sleaze queen of questionable judgement, and her husband who was impeached when he was President for lying to Congress.  Yeah, that would be a huge triumph to elect those people, because you know "it takes a village" of people willing to pay $300,000 + perks for speeches.

Yes we can elect someone, anyone to do a better job than Obama and Hrc.

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Hard to believe, but
Date:	9/17/2016 6:11:30 PM (updated 9/17/2016 6:20:41 PM)

I am hearby officially giving up on you Hound.  At least for now.  It is beyond me to grasp how probably the most sane person on this forum can morph into just another extreme right wingnut in a matter of a few months.  In the words of your new hero ''It's so sad, really sad''.  If he wins, I wonder if you will come back to the real world and have the courage to say ''I was wrong'' when he destroys what this nation is all about, and it is obvious he will make an effort to that end.  Sadly, by then it may be too late.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Hard to believe, but
Date:	9/17/2016 8:31:42 PM

He is by no means my dream candidate.  And yes, I would be willing to admit I was wrong.  I admitted I was wrong about Obama.  Will you do the same if HRC is elected and is a disaster?  I listen very closely to what the candidates are saying on the rare occassions they talk about the issues and do not resort to name calling.  I've said before that I see HRC as the "more of the same" candidate.  There might have been a time in the future that if she was running, she would have been the better choice.  It's not that I wouldn't like to believe we can do the things she has promised - heck, I would love to live in Bernie's world, but this country simply doesn't have the money.  When we get our economy on track and the debt down, and we're not printing more and more money, then I'll feel better about these programs.  And when we aren't engaged in wars that we can't possibly win.  I know that it is horrible to think what we may have to do to end these wars, but we're going to have to do something radical (not nukes).

Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	Trump the birther
Date:	9/17/2016 9:11:19 PM

Buteye, let me first tell you that I do talk in terms of groups like ‘conservatives’, ‘left- and right-wingers”.   That’s on purpose, I don’t want to sound like I am criticizing a particular person’s opinions…   All this name-calling has got to stop, and I’m trying to do my part not to contribute to it.     And I’ve stopped contributing in many posts simply because I was tired of being insulted instead of talked to, other times I just ran out of something I wanted to say.       

    I do believe that the birther movement was about  getting people in the US to see their first Black President as an imposter… he was accused of not being an American citizen.     Some conservatives continue to say he has been a secret Muslim infiltrator bent on dismantling the US Constitution.   So Trump’s birther campaign was mostly successful in driving public opinion, and he used it to launch his new career as Presidential Candidate.  

      The problem for me is the myths and out-right fabrications that Trump has told us normally would be something conservatives should be judging him by… but to my amazement, I am seeing reasonable people accepting any lame excuse for tolerating Trump’s actions, statements,…..I have to say this guy is masterfully playing out the marketing game of the century here.    

                Regarding the Obama administration, I disagree with the way you characterize those allegations.  I particularly don’t know what you meant when you say “he warned us of hope & change”.   His campaign was during years when it was a good idea to encourage people in the US to not give up.    In the mind of liberals like me, the idea is that if people give up hope, they can turn on each other.   So, it’s always been guiding notion for Democratic Socialists, Progressives, Left – wingers, whatever you want to call us to look at our domestic economy with this in mind.   An international financial meltdown was threatening to bring this country into another depression.  The Auto Industry was going belly up.  I’m not going to indict the guy for trying to get the people to be hopeful.  It’s better than encouraging people to stock up on guns and be ready to shoot your neighbors any day now.

                Anyway, hearing the Prez talking about hope and change seems pretty normal…it’s

 what every President does for a living.  

You & I might also disagree about how bad the world is right now, at least on the domestic/economic front.   I think our economy is growing, slowly, in a positive direction.   Before you say we should be doing better, it’s worth noting that no large countries are experiencing a lot of growth right now.   I don’t think we can supercharge the economy and do much better without taking too many risks.   But I’m not an economist, and pretty much stay clear of trying to talk about that stuff.  

You’re right, I can’t address each one of those things you bring up here.   I can say I disagree with you about how Obama handled the Iran Nuclear deal.   I think it was the right thing to do because it meant we would not go to war with Iran… and Iran was convinced to not become a nuclear threat.   So what will happen in years to come?   We will have to continue to try to resolve with Iran somehow, both of us backing away from the edge.   We actually need each other to stabilize the middle east over the long term.   And we did not give them money for prisoners… we had their money that had been frozen for many, many years since the earliest sanctions… It was their money, we didn’t steal it from them.   The prisoner swap was part of an agreement that was going to go forward anyway… we were smart enough to use the extra leverage to get a couple of lucked out Americans back home.   That’s not a bad deal.   Bet their families are happy about it.

But the best part, for me, is this.   At this moment in history, Kim Jung Un is about to be able to launch a missile based nuclear weapon with a range that goes far beyond his borders.   And North Korea, as a national government, isn’t rational about what they might do.  

So at this moment, we are free to devote our attention to dealing with North Korea rather than North Korea AND Iran.   I think that has worked out pretty well for us.     The concerns I have about the hair-trigger situations like this one is the main reason I think it would be dangerous to put Donald Trump into the Oval Office.   

Name:	Buteye -	Reply
Subject:	Trump the birther
Date:	9/17/2016 11:47:51 PM

Without creating a diatribe, I will offer a few thoughts and then bow out. First, I thought hope and change was going to help unite us as a country and provide opportunities for those most in need. Instead, we have become even more divided, more families are in poverty, millions have given up looking for jobs, immigration policies have negatively affected our own citizens who are without jobs, Obama Care has severely impacted families by requiring outrageous deductibles, workers have lost jobs because of senseless enactment of new EPA regulations, the United States is no longer respected around the world, etc. I don't think anyone has forgotten that we were lied to time and time again to facilitate the passage of Obama Care. Obama ran for President on the platform of "transparency" and nothing has been further from the "truth". You want to justify the payment made to Iran as a non-issue because we owed them the money. If everything was above board, why was the money secretly delivered by a private aircraft in the dead of night simultaneously with the release of those who were being heid in captivity? What was wrong with being "transparent" and telling Congress and the American people the real truth? The "plan" was that everything was to be secret, but once the truth was revealed, it became necessary to "lie". Why is it that we bow to the demands of Ayatollah Khamenei, who he and the people of Iran preach "Death to America" and burn the American flag? They take every opportunity to "thumb" their nose at America and embarass us to the world. Remember the pictures of our sailors being heid at "gun point" on their two boats and the pictures showing them in captivity? I cringe every time I think about that situation. I could go on all night and I question the character of those who defend Obama and his administration regarding some of the viewpoints I have shared in this post.

Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	Trump the birther
Date:	9/17/2016 11:59:22 PM

Here's the most recent statistics release from the US Census Bureau.

http://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2016/cb16-158.html

In part it says: 

• Real median incomes in 2015 for family households ($72,165) and nonfamily households ($33,805) increased 5.3 percent and 5.4 percent, respectively, from their 2014 medians. This is the first annual increase in median household income for family households since 2007. The most recent increase for nonfamily households was in 2009. The increases of 5.3 percent and 5.4 percent for family and nonfamily households were not statistically different.

Poverty in the US is going down, the number of people who now have health care insurance is up.   

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Trump the birther
Date:	9/18/2016 9:09:25 AM

So income is up.  Obama took office in 2009.  So in six of his seven years income did NOT go up.  Doesn't sound so spiffy to me.

while the number of people with "health insurance" might be up, what good is it if the deductibles are measured in the THOUSANDS of dollars?  Doesn't sound so great to me.  

With regard to the Iranian nuclear deal, all I can say is you are naive, or just choose to ignore tha fact that Obama told Kerry to get an agreement at ANY cost, and that the thought that it is slowing Iran's march toward a nuclear capability is just so much poppycock.

As to the DPRK, the only thing that insane moron understands is raw power and until confronted with it he will continue his bad boy ways.

Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	Trump the birther
Date:	9/18/2016 11:57:55 AM

When the economy was on the verge of crashing and we elected Obama, I really expected it would take 15 years to get back on track again.  After all, it was a world-wide economic event... and domestically, there was way too many people carrying debt they couldn't afford, home values dropped like a rock, etc.   So 7 years later, we are continuing to see evidence of improvement.  I'm not complaining.   If all the other countries in the world are struggling to produce growth, why should we be dramatically different?  

Regarding Obamacare, it's true my deductibles have gone up.  I would point out that the deductibles are set by the insurance companies, not the government.   ACA left the insurance companies very much in play to provide us with medical coverage, although it does give them guidelines they now have to follow.   For instance, up to now insurance companies designed their products to gradually eliminate people who needed expensive medical care.  Over time, they kept their business plan going by focusing on insuring the healthiest people they could sign up.   The leading cause of bankruptcy in this country became medical expenses.

Some people don't seem to remember that premiums & deductible have been going up for years now.   Many didn't get to feel the immediate impact on this because it was being absorbed by their employers, but over time these employers were transferring the burden of insuring their workers to its employees by increasing payroll premiums, or downgrading their policies each time they came up for renewal.   

Meanwhile the pre-Obamacare cost of uninsured medical care was threatening your local hospital that was struggling to keep their doors open because we were forcing them to provide free medical care to uninsured people.   

The ACA isn't perfect and needs continued management to work well for us.  Problem is, conservative forces have been focused on eliminating it instead of creating an alternative policy to replace or improve it.

I don't think it's naive to think about the Iran situation in this way.   It is far better not to have to fight two nuclear threat fronts at the same time.  Obama's efforts weren't just ours alone, it was what our allies wanted, too.   Now ... for a while at least... we don't have to worry about Israel launching a preemptive strike.  We will have to deal with Iran in the future, but remember we were on the verge of going to war with them... and now we are not.   All told, I think that is a good thing.

North Korea scares me more than ISIS ever could.   They appear to be irrational actors and that makes them very dangerous.  Even a missle with a poor guidance system could vaporize Seoul or Tokyo.   They will be the first hot trigger issue that a President Trump has to deal with.  

Name:	Buteye -	Reply
Subject:	Trump the birther
Date:	9/18/2016 12:57:39 PM (updated 9/18/2016 1:04:39 PM)

As usual, you select one item(jncome) to report income being up for one year but say nothing about the other six or seven years under Obama when income was down. Also, you seem to accept all the other underhanded ways he has selected to deal with Congress and the American people during his eight years as President(lies and secrecy). It is amusing to me that you expected it to take 15 years for America to get back on track again after 2007. Sure glad your thoughts did not hold true about the recovery. On the issue of poverty, it seems that you don't see that as a big deal while we continue to send billions and billions of dollars at the drop of a hat to other countries. Why do we continue to neglect our poor and poverished? Lastly, I again ask the question, why does a normal person have to produce a copy of their college transcript when applying for a job but Obama was given a pass in his run for President? What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Trump the birther
Date:	9/18/2016 1:14:54 PM

Totally agree with you Hodja and Buteye. 

A deal is no bargain if you have to pay to play.  I know I have never read the Iranian agreement in full.  Iran got out from under our sanctions and pocketed some money from us.  But what did we really get out of it, quid pro quo. The only hammer we have with Iran is economic sanctions, but I don't know how effective those are given what we gave up to have this agreement.  But, my gut is that if Iran wants a nuclear weapon, they will have a nuclear weapon.  We didn't see the Pakistan and India nuclear weapons coming, but they sure got them, didn't they?  The only thing we did with Iran is kick the can down the road a little.

I think that most of what we see in North Korea is Kim Jung Un fighting for leadership and respect  in his own country, and fighting for acknowledgement from the U.S.   He wants to be relevant to be taken seriously.  And also, he is in a position to do the bidding of China, while keeping Chinese hands clean.  If at any time, the Chinese wanted him shut down, they would shut him down.  They are the only ones who have any hammer over NK.  But Kim Jung Un is smart enough to know that he can only use his nuclear option once, and then his country will be inilated.  He doesn't have the ability to penetrate this country further than the West Coast, and there is no guarentee that he can actually reach the U.S. He's more likely to  hit South Korea and we would inilate him.

I also agree about health insurance.  I had high hopes for Obamacare, but the roll out was a disaster, and the plans offered have such a high deductible that they aren't helpful to poeple.  So while they may be officially "insured", the fact is that the poor will still show up in the ER unable to pay and those of us who have decent plans will continue to have extemely high rate increases.   Right now, the increases on the increase of my monthly payment to BC/BS has exceed the "cost of living" adjustment for my retirement.  Which means my net income has decreased, and I have less to spend on discretionary items.  That doesn't help the economy does it?

From what I am reading, while more jobs are being created, they are not "career" type jobs, but part time minimum wage jobs, seasonal jobs and free lance jobs.  After 2008, when the economy went deeply south and layoffs took place, companies then realized that they could do the same amout of work with less workers - or they could hire part time or free lance workers, for whom the government would not make them provide benefits like healthcare or retirement.  I frankly don't think think that is going to change no matter what. 

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Hard to believe, but
Date:	9/19/2016 11:59:38 AM (updated 9/19/2016 12:01:21 PM)

I admit before the fact that Hillary will likely be a disaster, just a much smaller disaster than Trump will certainly be!  It is absolutely ridiculous that we have come to this in America!  Hillary is a 5 foot tidal surge with the potential of doing major damage while Trump, if l he linstitutes his promises, is a 9.5 rictor scale induced tidal wave with the potential to destroy civilizations as we know them!