Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Hey GF, where are
Date:	11/14/2018 12:47:10 PM

the gun lovers to explain how a "good guy with a gun" and a security guard to boot who was in the process of doing what "good guys with guns" do  as in disarming a "bad guy with a gun" got himself killed by the other "good guys with guns" (the police)?  Oh wait a minute...this "good guy with a gun" was black!  Stupid question...carry on.

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	Hey GF, where are
Date:	11/14/2018 2:15:55 PM

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/13/us/security-officer-police-shooting-suburban-chicago/index.html

I assume you are talking about this one?

lets just take a little peak - Democrat Strong hold Chicago shooting.  

You also assume that the "cop" is the good guy with a gun, but as everyone was telling him that "He's security...." and they shot him in the side. I argue that this kind of behavior in a strong democrat area is that this cop is not always the "good guy with the gun" but just another person like yourself who sees a gun and reacts, in your case you scamper from the area, in the cops case before the sound of "He is security" can reach from his democrat ears to his brain he just gets "triggered" by the sight of the gun.

So you are making the arguement that we just need to hang around during an active shooter by a criminal, to wait on a cop to come help the criminal kill the "good guys"?

I find it funny since you are hyping a murder in Chicago you did not mention the others wounded and killed in the same democrat stronghold - and these 13 wounded and 2 killed were just on SUNDAY.  Damn, you would think that will all that shooting and killing that they must use the gun show loophole 3-4 times a day and have the most lax gun control in the USA.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/12-wounded-1-killed-in-sunday-shootings/

This is a perfect example of not all cops are good guys with guns, and when seconds count, cops are minutes away and some are as trigger happy as the criminals that they swore to protect us from.

Name:	MAJ USA RET -	Reply
Subject:	Proximate Cause
Date:	11/14/2018 2:57:52 PM

You get 10 seconds of courage. BUT, the average firearms exchange lasts about 3 seconds.  During that time good guys and bad guys are driven by adrenaline… not reason.  AND, during that time training (or lack thereof) takes over.  The field-of-fire is confusing. 

If, you punch out a friendly, your life changes forever. It isn’t on you… it’s on the bad guy.  (Check out “proximate cause.”)  If you had not been there… things would have gone a lot differently… A LOT DIFFERENTLY!

Ah… but, you couldn’t know how differently… nor could anyone else.

Name:	lakngulf -	Reply
Subject:	Proximate Cause
Date:	11/14/2018 4:06:09 PM

MAJ  glad to have you back!!!  

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Yep
Date:	11/14/2018 4:25:45 PM

''during that time the good guys and the bad guys are driven by adrenaline not reason.''  Good point and exactly my point!

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	Yep
Date:	11/14/2018 5:03:01 PM

No, I think the point of your post was to point out how "gun lovers" have not posted and that you wanted to point out that a cop killed a security guard - I hesitate to use the term accidently or mistakenly, but without all the facts.  And you somehow want to claim that the "gun lovers" are racist since at least 1 and possible as many as all three was black and no one has posted about the topic.

I counter claim that you are insane since you are the one injecting race into the argument where it makes no sense.

I wonder at what point did you become concerned with our lack of posting - at the first mention of a gun being used?

Was it when the thug went to his car and returned with a gun?

Was it that the security officer who was armed, disarmed and stopped a possible shooting?

or was it that the officer who without full knowledge of the situtation opened fire on someone who stopped someone with criminal intent?  Unfortuantly the officer killed someone who did not deserve it, and will have to live with those consequences and hopefully there will be a review of what went right and wrong and additional traning required.

Of the three firearms, I am pretty sure the officer and the security guard went through appropriate back ground checks etc to get be able to have posession of the firearm, the criminal, probably not.  So is your point that we need more firearm laws because criminals would follow those additional laws?

I figure as with Hounds purse you were repulsed at the very mention of any of the 3 firearms, but still can not seem to locate where it became racist in the story, or the lack of someone posting about it.  I also can not seem to locate where additional laws would have stopped tihs from become the tragedy it became.  I can not see how any gun show loophole, additional background check, waiting period, medical intervention or anything else would have changed the outcome.  

The only thing I think that it brought to my mind is that sometimes the help you are expecting is not what you get.  Not *all* cops are good or have appropriate training on how to deal with "I see a gun" and react like you with either panic and run as we saw with the Broward County school shooting or a wall of bullets and ask questions later.  

Now when will the riots by law abiding citizens start over the death of the security guard who was killed by the officer ?  When will the Furgerson style riots, looting and arson happen?  When will the looters hit the streets like it did for Trayvon Martin?  When will the chants of "Pigs in a blanket, fry em like bacon" start?

As this case does not fit the narrative that the left wants to hype I do not forsee law abiding citizens or demonthugs looting, burning and rioting.  Now had the security guard killed the criminal, Chicago would probably currently be burning bright.

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Phil, calm down
Date:	11/14/2018 9:42:51 PM (updated 11/14/2018 9:52:44 PM)

don't get your knickers in such a knot...you could have a stroke.  Carefully read my post for a change.  My point was and is simply that I wondered why all you ''the best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun'' and ''security guards in public venues is a way to stop gun violence'' crowd was so silent after it worked out very badly for an African American good guy with a gun who was also security guard in a public venue!  I'm still wondering! 

Now I urge you and all on the forum to read your paragraph beginning ''Or was it that the officer....".  Read it very carefully...it speaks directly to the reason some of us strongly reject the ''good guy with a gun'' theory!!  Phil your own words tell it all!!

Finally, Phil read your last paragraph to see an example of a statement that appeals to the racist mind at a minimum and at worst is itself a racist declaration!!

Name:	lakngulf -	Reply
Subject:	I'll take the good guy
Date:	11/14/2018 9:56:05 PM (updated 11/14/2018 9:58:35 PM)

Life and events will not always come out smooth.  I'll stay with the good guy with gun theory.

Guns in hands of bad only will cause disasters

Guns in hands of good has potential for good, with some unfortunate happenings.

I'll take my chances supporting g good guys keeping guns, because bad guys have them.

You can support bad guy only if you like

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	ARCH-IDIOT I say again
Date:	11/14/2018 10:27:22 PM

Take all guns away from dimokraps and there will be no bad guys with guns......simple...

Name:	Lifer -	Reply
Subject:	Phil, calm down
Date:	11/15/2018 7:08:39 AM

You are the one that interjects race into almost every  thread. Being the member who made the most racist statement in this decade your continuous calling everyone you disagree with a racist really says much more about you than anyone else. I love it when you libs call me racist. It mens I have won the debate.

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	Phil, calm down
Date:	11/15/2018 8:37:09 AM (updated 11/15/2018 8:38:41 AM)

so to excerpt to figure out where your panties got all twisted.

or was it that the officer who without full knowledge of the situtation opened fire on someone who stopped someone with criminal intent?  Unfortuantly the officer killed someone who did not deserve it, and will have to live with those consequences and hopefully there will be a review of what went right and wrong and additional traning required.

So an officer, your words "good guy with gun"  my contention is not all cops are "good" and some suffer from your same fear of the lawfully armed and are more then willing to shoot first and ask questions later.  

and for your question of the last paragraph being pure racist incitement

As this case does not fit the narrative that the left wants to hype I do not forsee law abiding citizens or demonthugs looting, burning and rioting.  Now had the security guard killed the criminal, Chicago would probably currently be burning bright.

I stand by this statement in that for starters "law abiding citizens" are not doing the looting, burning and rioting.  It is simply a statement based on past Obama era riots/looting/arson that in the case of a shooting it only seems to cause people to riot and loot when the criminal is the one who gets shot.  So as the mayor indicated that they considered it a blue on blue shooting (his words) or "friendly fire" I am sure that it will not get as much traction by the demonrats in the news.

I stand by my entire post - you brought race into it by implying we had not rabidly posted it like you did because he was black. You like always post pure insanity, and I love how you put it that the security guard "got himself killed" for doing his job.  You have to be the most miserable person in real life.

Name:   architect  -  Subject:   Hey GF, where are Date:   11/14/2018 12:47:10 PM

the gun lovers to explain how a "good guy with a gun" and a security guard to boot who was in the process of doing what "good guys with guns" do  as in disarming a "bad guy with a gun" got himself killed by the other "good guys with guns" (the police)?  Oh wait a minute...this "good guy with a gun" was black!  Stupid question...carry on.

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Thanks Phil
Date:	11/15/2018 8:53:14 AM (updated 11/15/2018 9:01:32 AM)

for making my main points yet again in your own words.  Much appreciated.

BTW Phil.  Do you not agree that the armed black security guard who died was a ''good guy with a gun''?  Why do you concentrate on the ''bad'' cop rather than the ''good guy with a gun'' he killed?  Guess you may also be confirming some of my opinions (suspicions) by where you put your thoughts.

Name:	lakngulf -	Reply
Subject:	Thanks Phil
Date:	11/15/2018 9:10:18 AM

I'll take my chances on good guy with gun,realizing some of these cases created by bad guy don't end perfect.  But many end better because of ggwg!

You stay in safe zones!

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	Thanks Phil
Date:	11/15/2018 10:17:50 AM

Where I put my thoughts had to do with where mistakes were made.  Good guy with gun does his job disarming bad guy with gun.  Cop comes in and shoots good guy - only place I saw race was in your comments. Sorry the officer who should be trained to deal with situtations without shoot first and ask questions later somehow in your warped mind because racist.  This speaks volumes as to where your liberal mindset is.  Racist, sexist, homophobic bigoted, xenophobic - Much like you I carry those insults as badges of honor because when you are reduced to those we all know that you have lost your arguement.   

I believe your continued comments speak volumes about youself and less about me.

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Give me a break Phil!
Date:	11/15/2018 11:15:17 AM

"Now had the security guard killed the criminal Chicago would probably be burning."  Who do you see in your warped mind burning Chicago, tell me what color skin you assume they would have, tell me why when a "bad cop" (your words) killed a black security guard Chicago didn't burn!  Do you imply black citizens (or white for that matter) in Chicago only riot when a cop kills a criminal?  What if the same thing happened in Oklahoma City...are only people in liberal cities subject to rioting? Give me some answers Phil!  WHAT DOES YOUR QUOTE ABOVE MEAN?

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	Give me a break Phil!
Date:	11/15/2018 12:30:50 PM (updated 11/15/2018 12:37:31 PM)

I think you answered your own question - Yes, it appears that democrat strong holds and liberal Meccas seem to be the places that riot and loot, and usually for the criminals in the last 10 years.  Some like Chicago have high crime so I would say there appears to be a pattern of high crime vs high democrat/liberal populations.

I sorry that through your racist tinted glasses you see race in my statement, my statement is just that liberals are more likely to care about a criminal being shot, then the innocent or a police officer.