Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	DOD, et al look more incompetent by the day
Date:	2/7/2023 2:09:01 PM

Whoever at NORAD or wherever that is responsible for detection of incursions into our airspace are looking more incompetent on almost daily basis.  First we learn that the only reason they even detected this balloon was some guy in Montana saw and reported it.  And contrary to what Mayor Pete said, they did have to close U.S. airspace until the F-22's confirmed it was at 65K feet which is well above commerical airline flights.  Then in response to the firestorm over Brandon letting it float across the country before finally shooting it down they claimed that it happened three times during the Trump admin. 

When everyone and their brother from that admin denied this happened, including Never Trump types, they have changed their story to this one.  Apparently they went back and looked and saw three incursions that were "undetected".  But they can't tell us how they know this cause its super duper top secret......apparently we have to look in Brandon's garage to find out.  Then when they were pressed for more details they are now saying that those three times the balloons only skirted close to or nipped some U.S. territory.  I think basically what we have here was a weak and ill considered attempt to make this no big deal....happens all the time.....Trump didn't do his job either....blah, blah, blah.  And it has blown up in their faces and rightly so.

What these political hack wahoos don't get is no one is blaming them for this balloon.  The ChiComs spy, we spy, everyone spies.  But what is disturbing is that Brandon let it fly across the country sending its info to the ChiCom's while Nero fiddled, diddled and drooled.  I can only imagine the ChiCom back channel message to Brandon that if he values his hide and that of his son's he will let the balloon do its job and then he can shoot it down.

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	DOD, et al look more incompetent by the day
Date:	2/7/2023 2:48:23 PM

You are making it into a typical MM Conspiracy. The answer is so much simpler....

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	LOL!
Date:	2/7/2023 2:57:21 PM

Now that is pretty funny.  I still like mine a little more but that's more ideological.  Yours is funny as well.  But the dang NORAD and all those buffoons are not filling me with confidence in their competence.  They got caught when they allowed themselves to be used to provide political cover for Biden so I don't feel sorry for them in the least.

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	LOL!
Date:	2/7/2023 4:07:26 PM

Thankfully I get less about my car insurance now - they moved on to medicare and final burial expenses.....  

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	DOD, et al look more incompetent by the day
Date:	2/7/2023 5:20:47 PM

To me, it sounds like some pieced together story that someone in the WH made up.  It does not really make a difference is there were balloons in Trumps time - what matters here is that they did have the ability to detect it and didn't say or do anything about it until it was on the way out of the country.  The NORAD commander works for the President, so he may have already been given the talking points ginned up by the WH.  It's a major screw up.  And now they are trying to paint Biden as a hero.  You know they could have cleared the area if they wanted to shoot it down over Montana.  That area isn't exactly a population center.  And look how they have cleared an area because of that train derailment and the chemicals they are having to blow.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	LOL!
Date:	2/8/2023 2:23:33 PM

For me it's mostly about whether I was at Camp Lejune.

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	MM
Date:	2/8/2023 8:33:39 PM

Never realized you served in the military. Good for you and thanks.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	MM
Date:	2/9/2023 9:55:33 AM

Goofy, you know I didn't serve in the military.  My dad, and both my older brother and sister did but I was too young to get caught up in Vietnam.  Apparently there was groundwater contamination at Camp Lejuene and the plaintiff's lawyers are looking for clients.  

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	MM
Date:	2/9/2023 7:34:00 PM

The issue at the base regarding contaminated water is real...

"The Camp Lejeune water contamination problem occurred at Marine Corps Base Camp Lejeune in Jacksonville, North Carolina, from 1953 to 1987.^[1] During that time, United States Marine Corps (USMC) personnel and families at the base bathed in and ingested tap water contaminated with harmful chemicals at all concentrations from 240 to 3400 times current safe levels. An undetermined number of former residents later developed cancer or other ailments, which could be due to the contaminated drinking water. Victims claim that USMC leaders concealed knowledge of the problem and did not act properly to resolve it or notify former residents."

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	MM
Date:	2/10/2023 9:54:10 AM

When did I say it wasn't real?  I said there was apparently groundwater contamination at the base.  As I understand it the contamination is primarily chlorinated volatile organic compounds (CVOCs), i.e., PCE, TCE and degradation products.  ATSDR studied the water systems and found that three of the eight or so were contaminated.  These supplied drinking water to base housing.

The issue of actual harm is not just the presence of CVOCs in drinking water but at what concentration and the length and quantity of exposure.  Given it is a military base the population was likely transitory although there may be on-site workers with longer exposure periods.  But the reality is that exposure does not equal harm.  CVOCs have been heavily studied and the kinds of medical conditions that they can cause are well documented.  Bear in mind that MCLs are predicated on pretty substantial and long term exposure and are also based on an excess risk of one in a million.  MCLs are based on drinking 30 liters per day for 30 years and if you do so it increases your risk of cancer or systemic toxicology by one in a million.  In comparison, smoking increases your risk by 1 in 3.  I seriously doubt there is even one person that had that kind of exposure.

So plaintiff lawyers are looking for anyone that may have been exposed and then they will try to tie any health issues with this exposure.  Frankly, they are counting on the Federal government to just pay rather than litigate.  So there will be a lot of lucky people that got exposed, experienced no harm and will get some cash.  Then there are going to be unlucky people that were exposed, had some health issues (regardless of causation) that will get paid.  And then there's the lucky lawyers that will make a ton of money simply by casting their net far and wide to find clients that fit the bill.  Trust me, after 35 years in the environmental business I know how this game is played.