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Name:	VMG -	Reply
Subject:	Lake issue
Date:	3/11/2006 8:46:18 AM

Markjhawk, cant tell you what number of the over $200M was spent on landlocked lakes, but considering Martin is one of the BIGGEST lakes in the country, I am sure quite a bit! I can't belive anyone would want to cut revenue to the state, and put people out of work, over the size of a boat on 44,000 acres!

Name:	Lakeman -	Reply
Subject:	Lake issue
Date:	3/11/2006 9:55:50 AM

I don't have a dog in this fight, don't have a 30'+ 1500hp motor. I know the people I have met that do have seem responsible and reliable to do what they say they will do. I also believe they care about other boaters and residents of the lake. VMG you need to research your statements or be quiet. SAC, you are just rediculous. Your attitude is mememememe! While you are saying other people do not respect you feelings or opinions you in turn are calling them idiots and other names. You also should shut up and let responsible adults handle this situation.

As for the Bills, there seems to some high powers behind this and I don't think what we say or do will matter. There will be some compromises on lengths for the sake of house boats. I haven't yet been able to see their axes they have to grind.

It's always easier to look back and see the things we should have done to avoid situations like this but pride always has a blind eye and allows us to be blindsided. Peace.

Name:	markjhawk -	Reply
Subject:	Lake issue
Date:	3/11/2006 11:23:22 AM

VMG,

But what about all the other lakes in Alabama which aren't nearly as big as Martin.

There would be some negative impacts based on length alone and I think that should be addressed. The impact of moving the 500HP crowd to the Gulf of Mexico...not nearly as much. Who is going to lose their job if the 500HP boats aren't on Lake Martin? Gas station attendants? What are we talking about maybe 20 boats? The loss of those boats could in fact increase the number of family boaters on the lake.

Name:	longtimer -	Reply
Subject:	Lake issue
Date:	3/11/2006 12:58:40 PM

"Biggest lakes in the country?" I don't think so. Martin is a big man-made lake; at one time, it was the biggest man-made lake in the world. But now, it's not even the biggest man-made lake in Alabama.

Eliminate "man-made" from the equation, and Martin is a drop of water. Big lakes are measured in terms of square miles, not acres.

Name:	fountain -	Reply
Subject:	Lake issue
Date:	3/11/2006 1:17:53 PM

Check out the wet slips at all the marinas .

Name:	fountain -	Reply
Subject:	Lake issue
Date:	3/11/2006 1:21:44 PM

Ever think that a few of the big fast/loud boats have families.

Name:	AnchorbayDon -	Reply
Subject:	Lake issue
Date:	3/11/2006 1:42:34 PM

What man-made lake is bigger in Alabama? I think that all of the bigger ones (Wheeler, Guntersville, Pickwick, Eufaula, etc) are part of a river system that is 'navigable' and therefore not man-made as we've been talking. It just seems logical that there would be a different set of rules for a pond than for a 44,000 acres lake.

Name:	markjhawk -	Reply
Subject:	Lake issue
Date:	3/11/2006 1:44:08 PM

fountain...I am sure several of the go fasts do have families and you certainly can boat with them... And it would suck for those families if this law passes. I think the bigger family impact would come from the houseboat/cruiser crowd though.

I have a 25' almost 5000 pound boat. There have been a few Saturdays in the main channel when a thunder run blows by that it is pretty rough out there. Those in the sub 20' range...which there are a lot of on Martin...that can't be much fun. There is nothing better in the summer than taking a day off during the week and hitting the lake...to avoid the Saturday/Sunday chop.

I grew up near the Lake of Ozarks and now on a weekend you are crazy if you go out in some spots in a small family boat. Martin could turn into that...hopefully not.

Name:	markjhawk -	Reply
Subject:	Lake Sizes
Date:	3/11/2006 1:56:24 PM

Don is right about the size of the Lakes...Martin is by far the biggest of the impacted lakes (except Harris which I couldn't find)...here are the figures from uslakes.info on most of the lakes involved...may be some accuracy issues though...they had Jordan listed at 68,000 and Martin I think everyone says is 44,000.

Weiss -30, 200
Neely Henry - 11,200
Logan Martin - 18,000
Lay - 12,000
Mitchell - 5,850
Jordan - 6,800
Martin - 40,000
Smith - 21,200

Name:	longtimer -	Reply
Subject:	Lake Sizes
Date:	3/11/2006 2:19:58 PM

If you'll read the orginal post in this thread, it clearly stated "Martin is one of the BIGGEST lakes in the country." Plain and simple. All I did was point out-- quite accuaretely, mind you-- that Lake Martin is not even the biggest man-made lake in the state. I didn't say "biggest man-made lake in the state among those that this bill would affect."

Don disagrees with me about whether some bigger lakes should be considered "man-made;" I'll say that, since they would be a river if not for the dams (dams with locks, but yes, DAMS) then they are man-made lakes; would Lake Martin be a lake if Martin Dam was not there? No, it would be the Tallapoosa River.

For the record, two of the Alabama bodies of water that are bigger than Lake Martin are LAKE Guntersville (69,000 acres, 950 miles of shoreline) and Wheeler LAKE (67,100 acres.) Are they subject to the provisions of this bill. No. Are they bigger than Lake Martin? Yes. Point being: when someone starts throwing arouond "facts," as the initial post did, those "facts" ahd better be correct; otherwise, every other "fact" the poster mentions is subject to speculation.

Name:	AnchorbayDon -	Reply
Subject:	Lake Sizes
Date:	3/11/2006 3:42:05 PM

If you don't understand the difference between Lake Martin and the Lakes on the Tennessee or Chatahoochee rivers, you are in for quite an awakening if you ever have to go there. I think we're splitting hairs here. There is a whale of a difference between Lake Harris/Wedowee and Lake Martin, don't you agree?

Name:	JIM -	Reply
Subject:	Lake Sizes
Date:	3/11/2006 7:17:47 PM

Don, what is the differance? You know dogone well that a offshore boat has no business on Lake Martin, there is not enough room to stretch it out. I love them, but right is right,wrong is wrong. These vessels belong in the ocean,with the big boys.

Name:	WSMS -	Reply
Subject:	Lake Sizes
Date:	3/11/2006 11:51:47 PM

In this particular thread, the original argument seems to have been ignored. One poster said Lake Martin was one of the biggest lakes in the country, and another disagreed. But somehow, it has turned into a discussion about why lakes of different sizes need different rules.

Lake Martin is a lake. Lake Guntersville is a lake. Lake Jordan is a lake. Lake Superior is a lake. Superior is much bigger than Guntersville, which is much bigger than Martin, which is much biger than Jordan. In between each of these lakes you'll find dozens, if not hundreds or even thousands of other lakes. The sizes vary; the individual needs for rules and regualtions vary. What doesn't vary? The fact that they are-- each and every one-- a lake. A LAKE.

To say that Lake Martin is bigger than Lake Guntersville because one is a Tennessee River impoundment is like saying a basketball is smaller than a baseball because it is inflated.

Name:	Council Roc Doc -	Reply
Subject:	Lake issue
Date:	3/12/2006 11:06:18 AM

I can't help but think that this issue, like politics in general , is money driven. So you look to who has the deepest pockets. I throw this out there, but does anyone know of any precedent whereby a company like Alabama Power and it's parent, the Southern Company would be held liabel for any incident on lake waters that it regulates? Could they be only protecting themselves from aggressive litigation? Food for thought.....

Name:	roswellric -	Reply
Subject:	Lake issue
Date:	3/13/2006 10:43:13 AM

Hmm.. hadn't thought of that. Might be it....

Name:	Feb -	Reply
Subject:	Lake issue
Date:	3/13/2006 10:54:48 AM

Crazy question in regards to this post that might answer a litigation question. First I do not know the answer, and I am also not sure of the logic behind my thought. Does AL Power Company pay property tax on the 44 thousand plus acres of lake property? If so, maybe there is a potential liability concern. If they do not pay taxes on the property, then in essence doesn't Ths State of Alabama own the LaKe? I had always assumed the Lake was owned by The State of Alabama and therefore its Citizens. We know he laws on the Lake are enforced by The State.

Name:	Tallyman -	Reply
Subject:	Lake issue
Date:	3/13/2006 4:14:55 PM

I have really enjoyed the discussion regarding the legislation. (I have not yet formed an opinion.) I owned boats for forty years. The largest was a 30 foot, ocean going sailboat, and the ocean is where it was used. After I sold it I discovered that if you don't have a boat, you can have a bank account. After I got a bank account I found I could afford a condo at Lake Martin and from the balcony of my condo I can watch all sorts of boats. Maybe someone will give me a ride someday!

Name:	ALSCN -	Reply
Subject:	Lake issue
Date:	3/13/2006 4:48:46 PM

Plain and simple this has nothing to do with boats at all. It is all about politics. The representative that has proposed this bill has lake Harris in his district. The development company which is building up Lake Harris is requiring that this bill be passed so that it can use it as a selling point that no large boats will be placed on Lake Harris. So the contractor is controlling the politician and the politician is trying to control a whole bunch of lakes in the process so it doesn't pin point his intentions to begin with. I don't know about you guys, but I smell some dirty politics.

Name:	ShoeFly -	Reply
Subject:	Lake issue
Date:	3/13/2006 5:22:07 PM

Tallyman, you can ride with me anytime!!!

-Shoe

Name:	CAT BOAT -	Reply
Subject:	Lake issue
Date:	3/13/2006 9:15:18 PM

I thought i smelled something.

Name:	Tallyman -	Reply
Subject:	Lake issue
Date:	3/14/2006 8:59:44 AM

Thanks. I think having a lake without having a boat may be like having a meal without wine.

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