| Name: |
roswellric
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| Subject: |
My Imagination?
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Date:
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6/6/2006 4:33:29 PM
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or is the inventory of houses on the lake building?
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| Name: |
noagenda
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| Subject: |
My Imagination?
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Date:
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6/6/2006 5:05:35 PM
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condos and lease lot homes by my reading
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| Name: |
Feb
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| Subject: |
My Imagination?
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Date:
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6/6/2006 5:42:19 PM
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According to what I have seen on my last couple of trips down this year and my Brother's reading of the situation, places on the Parker Creek side of the Lake are in very short supply. (That includes deeded and APC leased.) Terry Henley of Parker Creek Water Co. also stated to my Brother they were in short supply. I had an appraisal performed just a couple of months ago by Ron Morgan owner of Lakedog Appaisals, and his statements to me personally and formally in the appraisal was that Demand exeeeds Supply.
Every time I make the trek to the Lake I pick-up copies of the real estate booklets. On my last trip down in May, the realty books appeared to have the lowest inventory of Lake property I have seen in over five years.
I am also amazed at the prices for condos that are appearing on the Lake. I know there are those that prefer the carefree lifestyle of condos, but in my own mind I can not choose an apartment over a house (personal rationalization). Condos also have their share of fees to pay for the upkeep and amenities.
Hopefully, we can get some pros to jump in with their annalysis to include where on the Lake there is supply (if it is the case) and where there is demand.
RR, did you notice or can you offer more on where there seemed to me a larger sell market?
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| Name: |
Maverick
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| Subject: |
Current Market Size
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Date:
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6/6/2006 6:04:00 PM
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As of 6/06/06 297 listings of which 176 are homes and 121 are condos.
As of 1/16/06 192 listings of which 100 were homes and 92 were condos.
Overall listings have have increased by 54.68%
Overall homes listed have increased by 76.00%
Overall condos listed have increased by 31.52%
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| Name: |
Feb
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| Subject: |
Current Market Size
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Date:
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6/6/2006 6:15:19 PM
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Yes, but who list lake property in Jan? Of course, they may of been listed before Jan. Most recreational property will go on the market in the Spring and not during Fall and Winter. I think Maverick we may have to compare from year to year and not season to season (your analysis seems to show the seasonal variation). .
Condo listings are a recent occurence since they have not been on the Lake but for a year or maybe two???
What parts of the Lake are seeing the increased market listings?
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| Name: |
Flash
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| Subject: |
Current Market Size
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Date:
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6/6/2006 7:25:48 PM
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From what I can tell, season doesn't doesn't enter into it. If you build it anywhere on the Lake, they will come and they will pay top dollar for it. Condo sales are deceiving with the "flipping" in sales. The condo"s by the 280 bridge is a case in point...
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| Name: |
Feb
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| Subject: |
Current Market Size
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Date:
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6/6/2006 8:09:57 PM
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Agree somewhat, but we are mixing apples and oranges to a degree. I think Maveick's figures were depictting listings (apples) and not sales (oranges). I could be wrong, but I think typically you will find more folks listing warm climate recreational property in the Spring as opposed to Fall and Winter.
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| Name: |
Osms
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| Subject: |
Ric.....
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Date:
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6/6/2006 8:15:41 PM
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It appears to me that the inventory has increased over the past year. The new home inventory is probably in response to an opportunity to make money by builders (the Ridge, as an example), and owners deciding to cash out at a high price.
I'm sure feb will challenge me on this--but you can price a house too high. All buyers are not stupid; they know when reality ceases to exist in pricing and we may be there. I went to the Russell Lands open houses at the Ridge and I must say that I was shocked and disappointed at the quality of the home offered at the absurd prices asked. If that is an indication of what builders think the buying public will accept; there will be a lot more homes on the market. Unfortunately, existing homeowners see the prices at the Ridge and think their 100 foot lot in 5 feet of water at the head of a slough is worth the same thing. The market is good and the interest will continue as long as the buyer sees future value.
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| Name: |
roswellric
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| Subject: |
Ric.....
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Date:
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6/6/2006 9:04:44 PM
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I agree with everything you said. The high prices and rumors of a quick killing have brought out all kinds of sellers. There are a lot of folks that are "fishing" too. And there are some relative amateurs taking advantage of the lack of zoning regulations. Real estate agents are working both sides of the street as well which is a bad sign.
I also agree with the quality problem. It's amazing that some one can build a $1.5M house and completely blow the elevation and still sell the house. Russell seems to be working on this but it's still a difficult problem.
Having said all that we are not going to have a glut of houses because there are only 2 landowners on the lake. The only glut I see right now is real estate agents.....!
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| Name: |
Feb
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| Subject: |
Ric.....
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Date:
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6/6/2006 9:15:38 PM
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In my opinion Osms, the only thing you got wrong is I would challenge any of your points. I would agree with most and just don't know on some of the others in particular construction quality. It does not surprise me..
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| Name: |
roswellric
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| Subject: |
Current Market Size
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Date:
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6/6/2006 9:18:58 PM
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That's what I thought..thanks..
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| Name: |
itisd
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| Subject: |
raised my price
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Date:
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6/6/2006 9:25:14 PM
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Yes, after visiting 6 very over priced houses at the RIDGE I came home and raised mine $300,000. Maybe I should go up $400.000 Maybe I should keep it another year for another 150,000 gain- can't do it with the mutual funds and stocks.
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| Name: |
roswellric
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| Subject: |
raised my price
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Date:
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6/6/2006 9:30:05 PM
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Not a profit until you get someone to actually pay you for it. I'd like to see the sales... I have no idea how you would price anything in this market. I'm glad I'm not an appraiser.
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| Name: |
Osms
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| Subject: |
raised my price
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Date:
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6/6/2006 9:36:46 PM
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You're the guy I was talking about. Let's see the sales prices--not the asking price. What's your justification; other than looking for a fool?
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| Name: |
cobra
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| Subject: |
My Imagination?
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Date:
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6/6/2006 9:48:23 PM
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I cannot believe what people are paying for these homes. I saw one listed that had 1 bedroom and 1 bath and they were asking about $300,000. Someone tell me where this madness stops. I got left out because I have always been way to conservative and now it is to late for me. I am too old to buy and wait on a return. How did all these high prices start to begin with?? On rumors or what. Just look at a real estate magazine and see all the pictures of the people that sell. . Good grief. Ok I am though.
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| Name: |
Feb
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| Subject: |
My Imagination?
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Date:
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6/6/2006 10:12:39 PM
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I understand where you are coming from cobra, but there maybe another perspective. I was watching HGTV the other night, and a home owner on a golf course stated: "Hey look I have an entire golf course for my backyard and someone else maintains it". You can look at a piece of property on Lake Martin as having 44,000 + acres of front yard. The dollars you were mentioning are awfully cheap for this amount of property in the way some look at it.
I read the other evening on NBC News where 34% of the retiring baby boomer generation intend on buying a new or different home during retirement. Of this segment 66% intend on buying a place on recreational property (golf course, beach, lake). These number are approx. based on my memory of what I heard. That is a big market on the crest or already going down the hill.
The madness may not be ending but only starting particularly on Lake Martin. I think we will find property prices and property taxes significantly less than a lot of other water front property in habitable areas of the USA. I can recall about three or four years ago on this Forum where several folks were saying then: "If you intend on having property of Lake Martin, you had best buy now". They were right.
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| Name: |
cobra
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| Subject: |
My Imagination?
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Date:
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6/6/2006 10:43:09 PM
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I am one of those baby boomers and plan on retiring in 3 years. I waited to late to buy property on lake martin. My son did not listen to me and bought 3 years ago on the lake and man on man was I worng. That is one time I am glad he did not listen.
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| Name: |
JohnGalt
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| Subject: |
My Imagination?
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Date:
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6/7/2006 7:10:23 AM
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Cobra if you want to retire on Lake Martin it can still be done. It all depends on what you want on this lake. If you want to live in the Ridge etc then get out your wallet. If you are willing to buy something and put some sweat equity into it then the dream is still alive. Remember you can always upgrade floors, countertops, build a dock etc. Get a good home inspection to make sure everything is structurally sound and safe. It is actually a lot of fun. Maybe something you and your son can tackle together.
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| Name: |
cobra
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| Subject: |
My Imagination?
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Date:
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6/7/2006 7:28:38 AM
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I have not found that place yet. Have you got any suggestions where a good buy would be. I am willing to do that work as I will have plenty of time in a few years.
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| Name: |
LifeTime Laker
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| Subject: |
I know a couple of places
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Date:
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6/7/2006 8:17:43 AM
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What is the price range you can get into? I agree with Joh Galt, there are a few deals around, you just have to look hard, have some imagination, and be willing to put the time and effort into it.
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| Name: |
BayPineYankee
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| Subject: |
raised my price
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Date:
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6/7/2006 8:55:45 AM
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I get a postcard each month from a realtor with a summary of waterfront sales for the prior month - number of sales, average selling price. Not the level of slicing and dicing discussed here but informative nonetheless.
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| Name: |
Feb
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| Subject: |
raised my price
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Date:
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6/7/2006 9:37:50 AM
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I will speak for myself. Some of my slicing and dicing is speculative, opinionated and hearsay. Therefore, it would be productive if you or anyone else has some factual information.
I trust Maverick's data as factual just not sure whether it was a true indicator based on seasonal variations.
I am also of a belief, without facts to support my belief, there maybe differences in trends of supply and demand for different segements of the Lake. As we all know, it is a very large lake encompasssing portions of three different counties.
Location, location, location is what we always here. This can also change. I noticed on my last trip down there is a development of rather nice lake homes going up (actually a lot of it ia already up) near the old Scrushy Place. Although they are nice, they are pushed together and each has limited water frontage. What does that do to the value of the older established lake mansions that were already in the area. So, I guess what I am trying to say is that the desirability of a location can also change up or down. You and I can not use a place clear across the Lake as a comparable to the value of our place with confidence (once again my opinion).
I will only say for sure that water front is going to be valued many times over the value of non-water front within a near vicinity.
My personal investment portifolio is modest, but it is diversified. There is no other segment of the portifolio other than property currently doing very well. Any other investment will not be offset with tax advantages. Property provides you a number of tax write-offs that assist you in the investment. Then again property has its cost such as maintenance. I will say this, other than from a feeling of security, money in stocks, bonds, CDs, savings accounts and etc. give me little pleasure. Owning a place in a recreational area gives you both an investment and pleasure since you can actually enjoy and use it.
Isn't that what life is all about, not how much you can obtain and leave but how much you enjoyed while living it.
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| Name: |
BayPineYankee
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| Subject: |
raised my price
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Date:
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6/7/2006 11:27:06 AM
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I agree with all you have said and one point I think roswellric made earlier. Pricing is all over the place - some sellers are leaving $ on the table (my opinion) and others are hoping for a rube to come along and are priced way too high for their area, features, depth of water, frontage...
Feb, I think you have also previously commented on the value of Lake Martin and suggested that this market may be in its infancy. I too am from out of the area and have seen what has happened to values on other lakes. For those that think they have missed their chance, I truly think there is much appreciate yet to be seen.
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| Name: |
Jaws
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| Subject: |
raised my price
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Date:
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6/7/2006 2:16:27 PM
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It is obvious that prices have peaked for the time being in FLA. It will be 3-5 yrs before they come back in my opinion. As for lake martin, hopefully the price correction will be small. Clearly some real estate markets are less vulnerable than others. But we have not seen a major real estate slowdown since 1990-91. People have forgotten that real estate can go down in value. Kind of reminds me of the stock market in 2000. People had forgotten that stocks could down because they hadn't in so long. If you are thinking about buying on the lake, make sure you are doing it for the right reasons. If it's for the fun and family time, then I say go for it. If it is because you think it is going to be a great investment, be careful. You will need 10% a year just to cover taxes,insurance,maintenance and interest etc. People tend to forget about that. Rest assured that our new Fed Chairman is going to slow real estate down. It's already happening in other places. Lake Martin and other places will not be immune to a slowdown. The hiccups in FLA will most likely be felt here before it's over.
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| Name: |
FLee
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| Subject: |
raised my price
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Date:
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6/7/2006 2:47:32 PM
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As in other areas of the country, it's according to where you are in Florida....Orlando area prices are still increasing, just not at the same high rate as it has the past few years.....but still increasing.
Local Real Estate agents have told us for years that the historical rate of appreciation has been 10 - 12% per year. Obviously, the past couple of years have blown this out of the water. One of the draws that Lake Martin has had for us is that it is fun AND it's a great investment. I believe it still is.
As far as more homes on the market, I have seen more long time owners either listing or considering listing their homes because they think the market is close to peak. In my opinion, now is STILL a good time to buy.
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| Name: |
JohnGalt
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| Subject: |
My Imagination?
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Date:
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6/7/2006 6:52:59 PM
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What part of the lake have you been exploring. You probably would like to be near your son.
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| Name: |
cobra
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| Subject: |
I know a couple of places
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Date:
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6/7/2006 10:30:34 PM
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My price range is from $100,000 to $300,00. You know where there are any bargains. I really does not matter about the location.
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| Name: |
Feb
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| Subject: |
I know a couple of places
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Date:
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6/8/2006 6:08:16 AM
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There was a place to the right rear side (as you look toward the Marina) of the Parker Creek Marina for sale within your price range I believe. It has been on the markey for a long time. I have actaully been throught the cabin, and it is a nice Lake Cabin. I believe it is an older APC leased lot. The location is terrible since you look across the slieugh at the loading stacks for the marina. Good part of Lake but bad location.
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| Name: |
roswellric
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| Subject: |
Why not
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Date:
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6/8/2006 7:10:33 AM
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buy a nice place in Stillwaters, with the savings get a fancy golf cart to get you to the marina and a nice boat all gassed up and waiting for you? Then play a round of golf in the afternoon with your buddies? Heck! You can do this on Lanier for under one million!
Seriously there probably are some lake view lots around in SW. I think Stillwaters, being torn up like it is right now, is an undervalued opportunity. Better yet after looking at the lot price ratios, check out a $10K lot build you own house and you'll get a lot more house since the lot is cheap.
AND! Swap that darned 280 lot for the SW lot and don't pay any taxes!
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| Name: |
FLee
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| Subject: |
I know a couple of places
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Date:
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6/8/2006 12:20:13 PM
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You may want to check in the Manoy Creek area. I have seen a couple of listings in the $275K - $375K range for houses with deeded lots. Generally, they have either a nice house with not much water view or a decent view (though shallow) with not much of a house.
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| Name: |
cobra
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| Subject: |
Why not
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Date:
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6/8/2006 12:25:07 PM
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I could swap for some lake property if I knew anyone who was interested. I have a metal building on that lot. I have never listed it but may very soon.
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| Name: |
Tallyman
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| Subject: |
raised my price
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Date:
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6/8/2006 2:13:52 PM
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Here is a little something to consider from the Florida angle, as I see it here in Tallahassee.
First, in Florida a homeowner gets a homestead exemption on his primary residence and the property assessment is limited to 3% per year. You can only get one homestead exemption. If you buy a vacation house on the coast, you may expect the assessment, and therefore the property tax, to increase substantially each year. For instance, a fellow Tallahassean bought a vacation home in Mary Esther for $450,000 three years ago. The next year his waterfront house was assessed for $700,000, and the next for $900,000. He expects it to be over $1,000,000 this year. He will be paying about $8,000 per annum in property tax. The property tax on my residence in Tallahassee will be $3,000 this year. The property tax on my little condo in Stillwater, which is worth more than my residence, is $1,000, and there is a four year limit on assessments in Alabama, I think.
Second, it is unlikely that a commercial insurance company will insure your house on the coast so you will have to get it from the state sponsored Citizens Insurance Company, which by law must charge premiums that match the highest commercially available premiums in the state. On a million dollar piece of property think $18,000 (for property you purchased for $450,000).
Those are two of the many reasons I drive all the way from Tallahassee to enjoy Lake Martin. Other Floridians are figuring this out also. So LM property must rise like a pre-hurricane tide!
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| Name: |
roswellric
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| Subject: |
Why not
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Date:
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6/8/2006 2:36:53 PM
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You don't have to swap it directly. Do a 1031 exchange. Find a buyer, then he technically (and actually) buys your lake lot then immediately swaps it for the building. You get the lot, he gets the building, you pay no tax on the gain. Then you move in to the house you build on the lot and presto you owe no taxes if you live there 2 years. (better consult your CPA though since I'm no expert). Where/ how big is your building?
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| Name: |
roswellric
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| Subject: |
Shoulda said
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Date:
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6/8/2006 2:39:49 PM
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You "defer" any tax on the gain not "pay no" unless you make it your residence. BTW after you sell the building you have 45 days to find (identify) the swap property and 180 days to close it. Again I'm not a CPA so check it out before you do it.
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| Name: |
cobra
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| Subject: |
Why not
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Date:
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6/8/2006 3:56:18 PM
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3500 sq ft. 4 miles west from AC walmart
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| Name: |
Osms
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| Subject: |
raised my price
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Date:
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6/8/2006 9:38:39 PM
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I live on the coast on the water in Katrina land (MS). My taxes were that high before Katrina. God only knows what 's going to happen to insurance rates. We're selling on the coast--already moved to the lake.
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| Name: |
roswellric
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| Subject: |
Why not
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Date:
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6/11/2006 10:24:09 PM
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Can't respond to that except re-read my post....you don't get it...
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| Name: |
cobra
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| Subject: |
Why not
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Date:
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6/11/2006 10:57:49 PM
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I think I will just keep my building and lot. I checked out a few lake lots and homes and NO WAY would I pay that much for what you get. Talking about over priced places. Oh well. Good day
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| Name: |
roswellric
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| Subject: |
Why not
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Date:
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6/12/2006 8:39:12 AM
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Oh, Oh I didn't get it. Sorry. Hope it works out for you.
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