Forum Thread

Hampton Topics

(Hampton Specific)

0 messages

Updated

Off-Topic

Lakes Online Forum

83,605 messages

Updated 4/25/2024 9:33:24 PM

Boat Maintenance

Lakes Online Forum

5,193 messages

Updated 4/3/2024 3:47:36 AM

Hampton Fishing

(Hampton Specific)

0 messages

Updated

Jokes

Lakes Online Forum

4,169 messages

Updated 4/15/2024 11:05:05 PM

Sports

Lakes Online Forum

4,260 messages

Updated 3/24/2024 9:24:45 AM

Grilling & Recipes

Lakes Online Forum

2,976 messages

Updated 3/20/2024 11:53:43 PM

Tallapoosa River Topics

Lakes Online Forum

98 messages

Updated 4/15/2024 1:00:58 AM

Forum Usage Rules

Name:	LifeTime Laker -	Reply
Subject:	Press Release
Date:	9/13/2007 11:42:14 AM

Below is the press release from the Smith Lake folks. I am going to add my commentary. Yes, it will be biased, because we all bring our own perspective and prejudices to any any debate, but it will not be nearly as biased as the release itself. But at the end, someone PLEASE explain to my how this shows any GREAT VICTORY for the 'stake holders'. If anything, it shows me just more status quo. My thoughts will be in all caps since that is the only way to segregate the two on here........

Double Springs, AL.--- The Federal Energy and Regulatory Commission (FERC) in Washington, D.C. issued a stunning ('STUNNING' = EDITORIAL COMMENT MEANT TO SWAY THE READER)ruling last Thursday, September 6, 2007 to Alabama Power Company when it granted only a year-to-year license for the power company’s hydro-electric operations on the Warrior River. For the past seven years, Alabama Power Company has applied for and sought customary re-licensure approval of 30-50 years for its operations on Smith Lake.(FOR SEVEN YEARS THIS SAME THING HAS HAPPENED, SO WHY IS IT SO 'STUNNING' THIS TIME)

Cheering the federal government’s unexpected decision were many residents, community leaders, and local business folks who live and work in the Smith Lake region, which is located in Cullman, Walker and Winston counties. The largest, most vocal alliance formed against Alabama Power Company’s re-licensure is a grassroots group of citizens known as SLISA, or the Smith Lake Improvement and Stakeholders Association. SLISA’s members banded together last year (LAST YEAR, SO WHO TAKES CREDIT FOR THE PREVIOUS 6 YEARS OF THE SAME RULING) in an effort to eliminate unnecessary lake level fluctuations and to protest Alabama Power Company’s unfair land management issues related to the lake and its extensive shoreline. Major concerns were also raised regarding the adverse impact on the local and surrounding communities’ economies due to Alabama Power Company’s policies. (NOT APCO POLICY BUT CORPs GUIDELINES)

“In our opinion, (OPINIONS ARE NOT FACTS, WHAT PSYCHIC TOLD THEM IT WAS GOING TO GO OTHER WISE) Alabama Power Company would have been granted the full 30-50 year re-licensure had we, the unified residents of the Smith Lake community, not intervened and sought relief from FERC,” stated Jared Key, President of the Smith Lake Improvement and Stakeholders Association. He added further, “While we recognize the process of re-licensure is still ongoing, (ONGOING-- MEANS IT ISN'T OVER YET, SAME TIME NEXT YEAR FOLKS) we are now somewhat hopeful that Alabama Power Company officials will finally attempt to resolve the few, but critical, requests we have asked of them. Quite frankly, we believe that reasonable accommodations for all parties involved in this dispute can be attained, but Alabama Power Company hasn’t shown any willingness for compromise throughout the whole process.” (WHAT COMPROMISE HAS BEEN OFFERED BY SLISA, ALL I HAVE SEEN IS DEMANDS THAT THEIR WISHES BE GRANTED)

Primarily, SLISA’s membership has requested that Alabama Power Company maintain higher water levels year-round that would be suitable and even advantageous for both sides.( HOW CAN THEY SPEAK FOR WHAT IS 'AVENTAGIOUS' FOR THE OTHER SIDE. SHOWS ARROGANCE ON THE PART OF THE WRITE/ORGINIZATION) Key was at a loss to explain why Alabama Power Company has staked out such a hardened position against the wishes of local residents who are also power company ratepayers.( HE IS AT A LOSS BECAUSE APCO DOES NOT CONSULT HIM ON THE MANAGEMENT OF THE LAKE OR IT'S BUSINESS POLICIES, OR IT'S COMPLIANCE WITH REGULATIONS) “Someone, or maybe several people, in management have chosen to totally disregard our concerns. They have preferred to let the process drag out, I guess, in the hopes that we’d just go away. (HOW HAS APCO LET THE PROCESS 'DRAG OUT, HOVE THEY SOUGHT EXTENSIONS, DELAYS OR CANCELLATIONS OF MEETINGS. ACCUSATIONS REQUIRE PROOF. SAYING IT DOESN'T MAKE IT SO) ''But we’re not going anywhere. It’s appalling that a company which spends several millions of our rate-paying dollars every year trying to convince us what an honorable corporate citizen it is has resorted to this kind of irresponsible and ugly behavior.” (IRRESPONSIBLE AND UGLY, TWO WORDS MEANT TO INFLAME THE READERAND AND DENEGRATE APCO)
Key, continued, “The individuals who have joined SLISA firmly believe (FIRMLY BELEIVING IN YOUR OPINION DOESN'T MAKE IT FACT) that our proposals (PROPOSALS REQUIRE FACTS AND PROOF THAT IT WILL ACCOMPLISH THE GOALS. KEEPING PEOPLE HAPPY WITH WATER AT THEIR PEIR IS NOT APCO POLICY) and solutions for maintaining year-round water levels will not only satisfy the needs of the residents and community of Smith Lake, but also meet the needs of Alabama Power Company related to hydro-power generation--- without increased cost to any consumers.(HOW WOULD THE WRITER/ORGINIZATION KNOW THIS. TO EVEN CLAIM THIS ONCE AGAIN SHOWS ARROGANCE AND IGNORANCE. HOW CAN THE WRITER/ORGINIZATION CLAIM TO KNOW WHAT APCO POLICY IS AND WHAT 'NEEDS' WILL OR WILL NOT BE MET BY A CHANGE IN THAT POLICY) Alabama Power Company apparently believes its consumers are better served by hiring its high-priced lawyers to duke it out in Washington, D.C.” (ONCE AGAIN THE WRITER ATTEMPTS TO SWAY THE READERS OPINION BY DENEGRATING THEIR OPPONENT (this hardly ever works) D.C. IS WHERE THE RULES AND REGULATIONS ARE SET, SO WHY WOULDN'T THEY HAVE LAWYERS/LOBBYISTS THERE LOOKING AFTER THE BEST INTEREST OF THE COMPANY AND IT'S SHAREHOLDERS)

Ok, so there is my take on the press release. I will GLADLY read anybody else's opinion on the matter. The HOBO's have done a great job so far, but using this press release as an example of the 'great' things that an orginization can do is totally misconstrued. The SLISA accomlished nothing but inflating the egos of its leaders and members, while taking credit for something they most likely had absolutely NOTHING to do with. The las press release I read from them admitted and bemoaned the fact that APCO just 'dismissed' them and their complaints. But now they claim the power to stop APCO from attaining something they have been denied for 7 straight years.

Anyone that wants to impress me will answer this question. Why has the 30-50 license not been granted for the past 6 years when the SLISA didn't even exist? I don't know the answer, but would LOVE to.

Name:	nelems,robert -	Reply
Subject:	Press Release
Date:	9/13/2007 1:53:16 PM

Hi,LTL,since I don't know you I have no desire to impress you with an answer,but I will answer your question.When APCO built Smith Dam,Ferc gave them a 50 year license to operate it.That license expired August 31,2007. The seven years referred to was the amount of time APCO spent getting their ducks in a row so they could get an expected 30-50 years renewel,which was not needed until August 31,2007. There have been no one year extensions until now,as none we needed.It seems to me that if FERC was completely happy with the deal then they would have just granted another 30-50 year renewel,but they did not.Seems to me that possibly SLISA,with their 3000+ members,caused FERC to take another look. Regards,Robert Nelems

Name:	LifeTime Laker -	Reply
Subject:	Thanks Robert
Date:	9/13/2007 2:17:03 PM

The only input I had was the press release. It reads as if the license has been renewed one year at a time.....

"For the past seven years, Alabama Power Company has applied for and sought customary re-licensure approval of 30-50 years for its operations on Smith Lake"

Having only that to go by is why I responded the way I did. What were the reasons cited for denial of the 30 year license? Many factors can play a role in that process. I don't live on or near Smith. I have only been to that lake a couple of times so I have not followed the news of the area.

Here on Lake Martin the license was held, up in a way, during the last occurance. APCO was required to provide more public recreation facilities, hence the creation of D.A.R.E. Power Park at Youngs Ferry. I can't remember all the details however. THey may have re-issued with stipulations, issued a provisional license etc, or granted and extension till compliance was met, or just re-issued with an understanding that the park was to be built. My memory fails me right now on details.

The point is that MANY factors can and do affect the license process. The detail you provided definitely gives more insight than the press release.

I am a Lake Martin homeowner so the lake level affects my personally. I also know and understand that APCO is not God and has no control on rainfall. I am in favor of a 485 winter pool here, but I understand that just because I, and MANY others, want it, doesn't mean we will or should get it. There are way to many factors involved for me to claim to know that the 5ft difference wouldn't make a difference in the management of the the state/region's river systems.

Name:	Kizma Anuice -	Reply
Subject:	4-H club
Date:	9/13/2007 2:34:05 PM

Mr. William Safire would refer to you as a Nattering Nabob of Negativism who has his own 4-H Club "hopeless, hysterical hypochondriacs of history."

I on the other hand, think you are the jackas s that lived on goat island. Is that where you lake home is? And judging by your comments you don't know sheep crap from cotton seed.

Since you call for facts from others, where are your facts where is your documentation?

For that matter where is your degree from?

Name:	glen7297 -	Reply
Subject:	4-H club
Date:	9/13/2007 2:38:35 PM

huh?

Name:	CAT BOAT -	Reply
Subject:	4-H club
Date:	9/13/2007 2:45:48 PM

I thought Mr. Nelems provided great information and facts in a very respectful way. Was shaping up to be a pretty darn good debate.

ditto "HUH"

Name:	nelems,robert -	Reply
Subject:	Thanks Robert
Date:	9/13/2007 2:46:49 PM

Thanks for t.he reply,LTL. Don't know at this time why the long term deal was turned down,but I will post as soon as I know. I appreciate your interest as Smith Lake and Lake Martin have many similarities and share many of the same concerns

Name:	Kizma Anuice -	Reply
Subject:	4-H club
Date:	9/13/2007 2:48:45 PM

I believe that you will see my comments are directed to LTL's comment on what Helms said.

duh

Name:	LifeTime Laker -	Reply
Subject:	Glen summed it up
Date:	9/13/2007 2:51:31 PM

I don't recall ever claiming to be an expert, or to even have a degree (which I do BTW).

What facts would you like? I pointed out bias and misinformation in a press release. Was corrected on one point and simply explained why I thought what I did. That sentence was misleading to say the least. I did not argue the point. I conceded to his superior knowledge on THAT ONE POINT. But I also understand that EVERY press release is biased propaganda. What other purpose do they serve?

Are you speaking of the DARE Park issue? I got my facts from the gentleman who was in charge of building the park. I am sure that a little research would prove it true, but I am not going to do it for you. I don't have too. I KNOW THE FACTS. I know the man. He is currently assigned to a project in GA, I just learned this week.

And please stop insulting the donkey!!

Name:	Kizma Anuice -	Reply
Subject:	SAYING IT DOESN'T MAKE IT SO
Date:	9/13/2007 3:02:43 PM

SAYING IT DOESN'T MAKE IT SO

That is what you said in your comments on the press release.
Why do SAYING IT MAKE IT SO when you are the one saying it.

Or the guy driving the tractor at dare park is the guy "saying it"

Name:	CAT BOAT -	Reply
Subject:	4-H club
Date:	9/13/2007 3:07:59 PM

I don't really give a donkeys butt who your comments were directed at. You simply killed a pretty good debate I believe. But, that is only my opinion.

Name:	LifeTime Laker -	Reply
Subject:	You are right.
Date:	9/13/2007 3:11:19 PM

Reallity and history make it so. Do your own research. Talk to all the tractor drivers you want. Then go find somebody tha might actually KNOW!!

Name:	LifeTime Laker -	Reply
Subject:	Now Now CAT
Date:	9/13/2007 3:14:05 PM

Calm down. You know it is not his fault. All the BS, negativity, name calling, flaming and EVERYTHING else negative that happens here is MY fault. NOBODY else ever starts anything, only me.

Name:	ecstasypoint -	Reply
Subject:	honest questions
Date:	9/13/2007 3:34:28 PM

Pardon me if my questions are redundant. I am new to your message board which I joined to find out the general consensus on lake-related matters. Unfortunately I'm having trouble sorting through the offensive nonsense (insults, sexist jokes, football wars) to get to the bottom of my concerns: 1) Years ago rumors related to the much debated water wars suggested that Lake Martin might lose considerable footage. Could we now be losing that war? Are we being prepared to never reach 490 again? Does anyone know what happened when the governors of Al, Fl, and Ga met (or if they ever all met)? 2) Is it possible that global warming and ongoing drought conditions may be semi-permanent and that the lake will not even reach 485 let alone remain there all winter? 3) If the lake was constructed for the creation of electricity (and presumeably storage for water for survival), is it wise to fight each other for who will consume it most foolishly? I have no faith that the officials at Al Power have any more sense than the rest of us who are devouring this resource for recreational and financial purposes. We're all so angry with a small-town mayor for allowing sewage to be dumped in the lake, yet it seems most of us want it preserved so we can race our boats up and down and dump fuel and garbage in it (and teach our grandchildren to do the same). Is anyone thinking about the water crisis we will likely face in the near future?

Name:	LifeTime Laker -	Reply
Subject:	honest questions
Date:	9/13/2007 3:40:01 PM

I will start a new thread with my take on this and answer your questions to the best of my ability. These are pertanent questions and this thread has potential to get deleted.

Name:	8hcap -	Reply
Subject:	honest questions - CAT
Date:	9/13/2007 4:04:19 PM

You got that water based hydogen engine ready yet. Oh yeah, that would make the lake levels go down further. sorry.

8

Name:	LifeTime Laker -	Reply
Subject:	honest questions - CAT
Date:	9/13/2007 4:10:16 PM

That last one required salt water. There is another though that ionizes fresh water and burns the hydrogen for fuel. It is sold world wide for welding and cutting. The inventor adapted it to a car engine and drove about 100 miles on 4 ounces of water. The good thing is, it converts back to water as it burns. I have video showing it working. If CAT will post it at www.cathouseperformancemarine.com I will send it to him.

Name:	CAT BOAT -	Reply
Subject:	honest questions - CAT
Date:	9/13/2007 4:13:01 PM

I can't put video on my site server. However, I do have a You Tube account, and can make a link there and post URL I believe. Lets try it.

Name:	CAT BOAT -	Reply
Subject:	Hey 8
Date:	9/13/2007 4:23:08 PM

I scraped the water based hydrogen engine idea. I am working on one now that runs on B.S. (aka Bull sheet) The way I have it figured, if I can pull it off and get it built, as long as LTL is around we will never have a shortage of fuel to feed it. What do you think?

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	LTL, Thanks for not responding
Date:	9/13/2007 5:22:18 PM

LTL: Thanks for not responding to this post and keeping the conversation going. This outcome is interesting to a lot of us and learning more about the Smith Lake experience is helpful. Having this devolve into another back and forth rant would have been a huge waste of time.

Name:	LifeTime Laker -	Reply
Subject:	Your Welcome
Date:	9/13/2007 5:41:43 PM

Although it really isn't necesary. I admit to flying off the handle many times before, but only when I have been attacked on a personal level. I am all about good debate, as long as it is kept somewhat on subject (these threads have a way mutating). It also has to be intellectually honest. I read the press release and then some of the responses seemed a little out of kilter. I decided to post my take on it. It is interspersed with my opinion, and what I see as propaganda statements. But like I said, all press releases are propaganda. Hopefully, some folks will take a second look at it now and have a more balanced view.

As for Kizma, he is not worth my time. Now if he chooses to make it personal.... well I think we all know what I am about then....lol.

Name:	LifeTime Laker -	Reply
Subject:	Hmmm...
Date:	9/13/2007 5:43:11 PM

And I get to ride in nice boats just for doing what I do.

BLING IT ON

Name:	CAT BOAT -	Reply
Subject:	Hmmm...
Date:	9/13/2007 8:49:06 PM

Don't flatter yourself.

Name:	roswellric -	Reply
Subject:	4-H club
Date:	9/13/2007 10:05:05 PM

You are truly a sweet person...

Name:	8hcap -	Reply
Subject:	Hey 8
Date:	9/14/2007 8:45:09 AM

Guess this means you will be able to fill it up at teh Dadeville sewage outflow pipe!!!
8

Name:	LifeTime Laker -	Reply
Subject:	If I don't....
Date:	9/14/2007 9:25:46 AM

... who will?

Certainly nobody here.

Name:	waterph -	Reply
Subject:	Press Release
Date:	9/14/2007 10:20:17 PM

What do you know about SLISA and the situation at Smith Lake? Tour Smith Lake as of today (9/14 2007) and you will see the massive amounts of damage that is occuring as a result of water management by Alabama Power (boat dock sitting on the ground, walkways hanging from the rocks, etc.). Draught is a factor but the total water level change cannot be explained by draught only. It has been said many times that a picture is worth a thousand words. Go to the web site www.decaturdaily.com, click on slide show, and view the 14 photographs that were take by the photographer for this article.

Do you know anything about the Gorgas Steam Plant and the fact that possibly massive releases of water might be part of the equation because Alabama Power did not install cooling towers at this plant. The deep waters of Smith Lake are an excellent source for cooler water during the peak summer water temperatures. Alabama Power, TVA, and chemical plants, etc. must adhere to discharge permits for water temperature. We Smith Lake property owners understand draught, navigation needs, and other factors that affet water level. We also understand that some of these events can be managed better via the expenditures of capital.

Name:	LifeTime Laker -	Reply
Subject:	Press Release
Date:	9/15/2007 8:48:54 AM

If it is not the fault of the drought, why is it that it has not been an issue till this year. As I stated above, I don't follow the events at, near, or around smith lake that closely. And yes I am familiar with Gorgos. It seem to me the site was chosen BECAUSE it had access to the nice cool water of smith lake to use for cooling.

As for the pictures, I have been there and seen them, but more importantly, don't have to. I can walk out in my yard and see the same thing here. Mother Nature is to blame, NOT APCO.

Quick Links
Hampton News
Hampton Photos
Hampton Videos