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Name:	F1Fan -	Reply
Subject:	Boat Ban - Dumbing-down again!
Date:	4/17/2008 5:07:36 PM

I don't have the time or patience to dig through every one of the rantings on here, but am particularly taken by the theory that this is the first step to eliminating all boats of a particular type. Give me a break. That is quite possibly one of the dumbest arguments I've seen, but I guess I'm glad the ACLU gets to post here as well.

Several of the objectors to the ban fail, I think, to realize that the current ban(s) are another dumbing down of the rules to make enforcement possible and easier. We already have laws dealing with wake damage, noise and excessive speed but so many people violate these so flagrantly that other options are sought out to avoid or minimize the impact. Then you end up with a "shotgun" approach like the bans to reduce the occurrence. If the general boating population had the least bit of common sense or consideration of other people and their property, none of this would have been necessary or happened. The "me-first, damnit!" attitude has gotten us here, and continued efforts to thwart good sense with loopholes will just push the enforcement and legislation that much further along I'm afraid. Not good for any of us.

Just like the zero-tolerance policy in school. "No illegal drugs" was too hard to enforce and too frequently violated. Now we have kids tossed for lozenges. Another classic dumbing-down the system process with equally foolish and unnecessary results.

Name:	Summer Lover -	Reply
Subject:	Boat Ban - Dumbing-down again!
Date:	4/17/2008 10:07:29 PM

OK F1, the reason that F1, and GP has gotten away from the driver is that anyone can flick a paddle shifter for the turn, not everyone can coordinate the clutch and shifter. This is a difference in operators. You say “the theory that this is the first step to eliminating all boats of a particular type.” What is this bill banning? It sure sounds like boats of a particular type to me. I do believe in the rights of American citizens, but do not lean nearly as far Left as the ACLU. As far as the zero tolerance rules – I agree with you 100% and this law is like zero tolerance – ban everything within an arbitrary size and/or capable speed. This does not address the careless or inconsiderate operation of any watercraft, and will in no way make Lake Martin safer or more enjoyable for anyone left on it.

Name:	Bob -	Reply
Subject:	Boat Ban - Dumbing-down again!
Date:	4/18/2008 6:34:09 AM

Summer Lover,

When you say that the ban will not improve anything, keep in mind that your feelings are just your opinion. My opinion is that it will greatly enhance things at Martin. I will not have to hear these Jet Engines over a mile away screaming up and down the lake attempting to intimidate anyone or anything in their path. It will be comforting not to have to see these balding, fat, drunks, overcompensating for their lack of real power in real life by running a loud, fast, ocean going vessel on LM.

Of course these idiots will push the limit and end up causing the very thing they claim to fear and that is growing regulation. It will not affect Bass Boats or PWCS but rather the "near banned" boats they are seeking now. Ironically it is the banned "victims" refusal to acknowledge why they were "singled out" that will drive further bans on their boats...

In fact I had a diuscussion just two days ago with a person with the power to introduce legislation who said 95mph boats near the banned length will be targeted if they pop up everywhere acting the same way...looking forward to it :)

Name:	Summer Lover -	Reply
Subject:	Boat Ban - Dumbing-down again!
Date:	4/18/2008 8:02:55 AM

Bob,
You are absolutely right – it is only my opinion that there will be no improvement in the conditions of the lake brought upon by this ban.

Do you remember what we used to call “3 wheelers”? To think that PWC will not be banned because too many people have them seems a bit delusional. 3 wheelers were recalled “voluntarily” and taken off the market because they were deemed too dangerous for the public. With those too, it was the operator who was creating the danger, not the bike. Do you think it is reasonable or safe to operate a PWC at the speeds some of the new ones – such as the FX SHO – are capable of going? The only collision that I have heard on the water in the 35 years I have been coming to this lake was two PWC’s that were running together, the lead boat tried to do a quick 180 and was t-boned by his friend. I say heard because I was on the front side of the cabin, the collision occurred about 300 yards from shore. The young man on the lead boat got to visit Russell hospital.

A friend of mine says “S--- happens, wear a helmet”. I view myself not as an optimist or pessimist, but rather a realist – I have half a glass of beer. Please do not underestimate what others are willing to do to save you from yourself.

Name:	DJ -	Reply
Subject:	Boat Ban - Dumbing-down again!
Date:	4/18/2008 8:20:21 AM

Let me start by saying I do not support the boat ban, that being said I want to issue an invitation to all that care about the issue to visit Lake Lanier on a Holiday weekend. Better not go in a boat that will sink. I think the intent of the ban is to prevent our lake from becoming another "Lake Lanier " they just went about it in the wrong way. Trust me there are boats in that lake that do not even belong in the ocean. I've seen 8-10 foot
waves in that lake, saw wakes coming off some of those monster boats that would capsize most boats on our lake and if you are out there in any size boat you had better be on your toes all the time. I will never support the ban but if our lake were to ever get that bad I'd sell out and find a better spot. I got an email from the hobos saying something about extending the 50 foot rule to a 100 foot rule, How many folks have you heard of that have gotten a ticket for being over idle within 50 feet of a dock or the shore line? I've seen the marine police watch some dipstick fly past all the boats sitting around the rock and just shake is head and
look the other way. I guess I shut up now but please go visit Lanier, me for now I'll still drive 2.5 hours to come here.

Name:	Marine Police -	Reply
Subject:	Information
Date:	4/18/2008 10:37:20 AM

There is no "50 ft. rule" in Alabama. Never has been in the years that I've been working. In fact, there is no set distance for idle speed. There is a proposal to have a "100 ft. rule" that is similar to what Georgia has. It is supposed to be voted on May 17th at the next Conservation Advisory Board meeting.

Name:	Pier Pressure -	Reply
Subject:	Information
Date:	4/18/2008 10:57:43 AM

Wish I could vote on this one. I would vote "Yes". Also, I would like to see the 100ft rule apply to stationary boats, whether anchored or not.

Name:	Osms -	Reply
Subject:	PP
Date:	4/18/2008 11:19:41 AM

It will apply to anchored and "dead in the water" boats.

Name:	DJ -	Reply
Subject:	Information
Date:	4/18/2008 11:55:19 AM

Wouldn't it fall under prohibited operation or carelss opperation?

Prohibited operation
"Operating a vessel in such a manner and at a rate of speed as will create a hazardous wash or wake when approaching or passing another vessel or when entering or leaving a harbor or marina area."

Careless operation. number 4

"Careless Operation
It shall be unlawful to operate a vessel in a careless manner upon the waters of this state. Careless operation is the endangerment of life, limb, or property through negligence, carelessness, or inattention of the operator.

Examples of careless operation includes but is not limited to the following:
1. Sitting in any position that is above the gunwale or cap of a vessel while moving above idle speed.
2.Riding on bow of vessel not equipped with handrails.
3. Riding on vessel with lower extremities hanging over the gunwale or cap of the vessel.
4.Creating hazardous wake in congested area.

Trust me they were very close to other boats when they went thru there
and was putting off a fair large wake.

Name:	DJ -	Reply
Subject:	Information
Date:	4/18/2008 12:05:05 PM

Also my bad on the 50 ft thing, I was told there was a 50 ft rule and that I should be at Idle when that close to a dock, shoreline or another boat. I have always done this at the lake and will continue to do so.

Name:	ALSCN -	Reply
Subject:	Boat Ban - Dumbing-down again!
Date:	4/18/2008 12:19:11 PM

Good Point SL,

I loved my 3-wheeler, never got in a single wreck... but it was outlawed and my dad made me get rid of it. Lot of good times and good memories.

But there is a very delusional crowd if they don't think that PWCs are going to be on the chopping block someday. Because, I will do my fair share to advocate their removal as well. I can not tell you how many times I have read on here big boat owners this and big boat owners that... true there may be a few idiots out there that may own a big boat. But there are idiots that own all forms of boats. So as I stated in the past. The law states that you must remain a certain distance from my boat in your PWC, I would advise you do this... I will have a camera and I am a good photographer :0)

Name:	Marine Police -	Reply
Subject:	Information
Date:	4/18/2008 12:24:08 PM

There is a section in the regulations called "Traffic Rules of the Road". It is 220-6-.07. Contained in this section are 19 subsections that deal with right of way, fog signals, staying to the right of mid-channel, etc.

Subsection 14 would apply for your situation....vessels approaching or passing another vessel shall be operated in such a manner and at such a rate of speed as will not create a hazardous wake or wash. Marine Police officers use this section as a reason to stop boats around Chimney Rock and other places fairly regularly.

I posted this link earlier but some may have missed it. It contains regulations that apply to boats in Alabama. See how many other parts of that regulation everyone could apply at Chimney Rock.

URL: Click chapter 220-6

Name:	Summer Lover -	Reply
Subject:	Boat Ban - Dumbing-down again!
Date:	4/18/2008 7:06:52 PM

Something tells me that when that day does come, that you will end up being on Bob's side of the table, and I know that I will. We all need to help make this a safer lake, but that can only be done when we address the problems caused by the ignorant, inconsiderate and/or oblivious operator and not the tool that they wield. And yes, my Canon is an ever-present item on boat trips, although it is generally used to get pics of Eagles, Ducks, and great looking boats ....and their occupants. :-)

Name:	muddauber -	Reply
Subject:	Boat Ban - Dumbing-down again!
Date:	4/20/2008 9:05:03 AM

Laws and regulations are a necessary aspect of life. This issue has a good analogy to our streets. If people only drove with respect and courtesy to others, we would not have all the traffic laws we do. Could you imagine if Nascar and Dragsters were street legal? For the same reasons they are not, we need to control what is legal on the lake.
History should be a good guide. Look at other lakes and decide if that is what we want to become. I for one, do not want to be another Lanier.

Name:	ALSCN -	Reply
Subject:	Boat Ban - Dumbing-down again!
Date:	4/21/2008 4:46:40 PM

You do have a point SL.. I would much rather shoot pictures of my kids having fun at the lake then someone who doesn't have the common sense to not be an idiot on the lake. Truthfully, it sickens me to think that any more regulations would be in put in place... but they will.

I don't meen to sound like a witch (but starting with a B) but for the safety of my family I will take pictures of those who are 50 ft. from my boat trying to jump wake. Or those who like to come up to my boat when we have friends scuba diving, just because they don't know what the "red" flag means. Carelessness is not excusable and if a ticket makes them learn a lesson then so be it. I know we have over the years got a ticket or two and each taught us a very valuable lesson... sometimes you learn from your mistakes.

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