| Name: |
DJ
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| Subject: |
Question for Marine Police
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Date:
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6/10/2008 10:26:45 AM
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I'm not trying to be a smart-person but I would like to know what law is being broken by standing up to drive a boat, I looked thru the laws I could find and did not see anything that covers this. I for one think visibility is much better in a boat if you are up over the windshield and the passengers, you can look around at what is coming for all directions so I can avoid a boat that might be coming at an angle that my passenger/s would be blocking. I have been driving boats standing since I started driving them, was standing when I got the ticket for not having the lanyard attached and there was no mention of standing, just no lanyard. Most of the boats I see on the lake the drivers are standing, is this a new law?
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| Name: |
green,ed
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| Subject: |
Question for Marine Police
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Date:
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6/10/2008 10:35:36 AM
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Blocking field of veiw
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| Name: |
SPEARFISHER
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| Subject: |
Question for Marine Police
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Date:
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6/10/2008 10:40:42 AM
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Of Who??
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| Name: |
DJ
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| Subject: |
Question for Marine Police
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Date:
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6/10/2008 10:42:39 AM
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I can understand the passengers not standing but the driver? There is a post below where the person said the marine police told him to sit, he did so. My buddy was pulled over for it, nothing else just for standing and driving his boat.
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| Name: |
Pier Pressure
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| Subject: |
Question for Marine Police
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Date:
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6/10/2008 11:01:05 AM
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If I recall correctly he was standing in the center of the boat driving with one hand (presumably the right hand). I can see this being an issue because he/she wasn't directly centered on the wheel and more than likely couldn't reach the throttle assembly from that position... Remember, most of these items are at the discretion of the Marine Police and more than likely if they were ticketed it was careless driving versus a direct violation of specific law....
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| Name: |
DroughtBuster
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| Subject: |
Question for Marine Police
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Date:
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6/10/2008 11:03:09 AM
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It is NOT illegal to stand in a boat unless in view of the driver. I stand in mine every time out and many times wave at the MPs while doing it. At any given time there are 3-4 people on my boat standing up. If you have some sort of boat with an extremely low gunnel then that could be unsafe therefore warranting a ticket.
GS
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| Name: |
DJ
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| Subject: |
Question for Marine Police
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Date:
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6/10/2008 11:37:27 AM
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He was told to sit down as Hawks Nest when he was standing.
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| Name: |
GoneFishin
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| Subject: |
Really Depends
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Date:
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6/10/2008 12:11:57 PM
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I have a center console I plan to bring to the lake. I run it in the Gulf standing as it is difficult to see out when sitting. Other boats are dangerous standing while underway. So, it really depends on the type of boat if standing while underway is a danger.
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| Name: |
DroughtBuster
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| Subject: |
Really Depends
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Date:
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6/10/2008 12:33:51 PM
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Then they need to break it down specifically as to what boats you can stand up in and what boats you cant. If they cant post specifics then they need to keep their tickets in their briefcase. Three people standing in a pontoon is a heck of a lot safer than three people on a jetski. Standing behind the wheel of my Grady White is no safer than standing behind the wheel of a pontoon, with that said, passengers should be made to be braced to something sturdy in case of a sudden jolt IMHO. Cant wait to stand up and bust through some chop this weekend.
Gs
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| Name: |
sagetek
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| Subject: |
Standing while docking
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Date:
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6/10/2008 6:06:45 PM
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In my pontoon boat, trying to fit in a 9 foot slip, you HAVE to stand to see if you are lined up straight, and passengers HAVE to stand to throw line, step off etc. to assist. Would this be an exception to the rule or what? Hitting the dock would be a safety issue also I would think if someone was thrown around and injured.
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| Name: |
Marine Police
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| Subject: |
Question for Marine Police
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Date:
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6/10/2008 9:56:15 PM
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There is no law against standing up and driving a boat per se. However, there is a law that requires a kill switch (if required) to be attached to the driver. There is also a law that prohibits obstructing the view of the operator. Also, careless operation covers activities that would increase the likelihood of falling overboard like sitting above the gunwale, sitting outside the railing of a pontoon boat, etc.
From glancing at the threads it would appear that one or more of those rules could be applied to some of the situations mentioned. For example, standing in the center of the boat and driving would indicate that no kill switch lanyard is attached to the operator and that the driver is not in complete control of the boat because of his distance from the throttle.
Many boat accidents, injuries, and fatalities involve people falling overboard. Here on Lake Martin one of the accidents we've worked this year involved a person falling from a boat and being injured. I don't know how many accidents with injuries and/or fatalities I've worked or have knowledge of that involved a kill switch lanyard not being attached. So, from an enforcement perspective, there are reasons to watch for activities that would indicate no kill switch is attached or that would increase the chances of falling overboard.
I hope that answers your question.
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| Name: |
Smitty
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| Subject: |
Question for Marine Police
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Date:
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6/11/2008 7:15:20 AM
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Very helpful response.....thanks!
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| Name: |
Tallyman
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| Subject: |
Question for Marine Police
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Date:
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6/11/2008 2:33:23 PM
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"I don't know how many accidents with injuries and/or fatalities I've worked or have knowledge of that involved a kill switch lanyard not being attached."
I know how many, for boats. None.
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| Name: |
Marine Police
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| Subject: |
Interesting.
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Date:
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6/11/2008 3:01:17 PM
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What makes you say that?
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| Name: |
Tallyman
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| Subject: |
Interesting.
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Date:
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6/11/2008 3:34:56 PM
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Neither Georgia nor Florida has a regulation on kill switches for boats because they recognize that the juice is not worth the squeeze. Florida has a lot more boats than Alabama. If they contributed to safety II suppose they would be required. Both states have separate statutes requiring "cut off" switches) on personal watercraft. Perhaps those states also believe that personal responsibility has a role.
Many years ago, (I am 65 and have been running boats for 55 years), most outboards were small and did not have steering wheels. If one fell out of the boat, the motor tended to cause the boat to go in an ever tightening circle, imperiling the person in the water, if he was operating the boat alone. I recall reading in the newspaper once, around 1955, about someone who fell out of a boat and who was thereafter struck by his own boat. (He was cut severely by his propeller but not killed). Perhaps there have been a few similar instances. Maybe there is a database of boating accidents and you can look up the number of people who have been saved by wearing a kill switch on a boat or injured because they didn't. I assert again, you are unlikely to find any.
Fining someone $150 (mentioned on this forum) for not wearing a useless device breeds disrespect for the law and those who enforce it.
I have the greatest respect for you guys and I am glad you are around the lake. You are given a lot of discretion in your work and I suggest that you put it to better uses than harassing people about kill switches. For the record, I don't believe I need one for my 25 foot pontoon boat.
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| Name: |
8hcap
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| Subject: |
Interesting.
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Date:
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6/11/2008 6:23:13 PM
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Here is the reg from Chapter 4 of the Alabama Boating Regs:
No person shall operate or give permission to operate any vessel less than 7.3 meters (24 feet) in length, having an open cockpit and having more than fifty (50) horsepower, unless said vessel is equipped with an emergency engine or motor shut-off switch. The shut-off switch shall be a lanyard-type and shall be attached to the person, clothing, or personal flotation device of the operator. It shall be installed so that when any removal of the operator from the normal operating station will result in the immediate shut-off of the engine.
So, 24' and above are exempted.
8
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| Name: |
MythBuster
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| Subject: |
Interesting!
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Date:
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6/11/2008 7:15:07 PM
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Tallyman said: ""I don't know how many accidents with injuries and/or fatalities I've worked or have knowledge of that involved a kill switch lanyard not being attached.""
"I know how many, for boats. None."
Then by way of explanation, he said: "I recall reading in the newspaper once, around 1955, about someone who fell out of a boat and who was thereafter struck by his own boat. (He was cut severely by his propeller but not killed)."
So, right there we can eliminate "none" as a possible answer. :-)
My own opinion: this is one of those "if it saves one life, it's worth it" scenarios. Me having to wear a kill-switch is a small price to pay if it saves a life... even if the life is not my own.
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| Name: |
DroughtBuster
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| Subject: |
Interesting!
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Date:
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6/11/2008 8:15:59 PM
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Here it is in action.
URL: http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=202616&posts=10
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| Name: |
Marine Police
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| Subject: |
Tallyman
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Date:
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6/11/2008 9:32:34 PM
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Your first post read as follows...
"I don't know how many accidents with injuries and/or fatalities I've worked or have knowledge of that involved a kill switch lanyard not being attached."
I know how many, for boats. None.
That sounds as though you doubt my statement about my experience with these type incidents. I can think of about one death per year in Alabama, on average, that happened just like the scenario you remember. I've seen operators and passengers that have fallen overboard and been run over by the circling boat. The ones that fall out wearing a kill switch don't get reported because there's no injury or death to report. However, there's plenty of information out there about the safety benefits of an emergency shut-off switch.
BTW, 8hcap is correct....your 25' pontoon boat would not be required to have a kill switch. It's required on boats with open construction, less than 24' in length, with engines more than 50 hp,
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| Name: |
Tallyman
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| Subject: |
Interesting!
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Date:
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6/11/2008 9:35:26 PM
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MythBuster, under your theory, the state could require everyone, not just youngsters, to wear a life vest at all times. That would save a lot more lives than a kill switch. Are you for that?
Can anyone name me one person who has been saved by a kill switch. Enlighten me. Surely there is an event other than the situation that I mentioned, which if it happened at all, occurred more than 60 years ago.
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| Name: |
Tallyman
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| Subject: |
Interesting!
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Date:
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6/11/2008 9:38:15 PM
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And by the way, it was the Marine Patrol guy who said he knew countless events where not using kill switches caused injuries.
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| Name: |
GoneFishin
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| Subject: |
Tournament Regulations
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Date:
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6/11/2008 10:00:17 PM
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All BASS tournaments to my knowledge have the following requirement:
Competitors must wear a Coast Guard approved life jacket with kill switch attached to driver any time the combustion engine is in operation and the boat is on plane.
Can ANYONE provide a good reason NOT to use a kill switch?
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Must be PP throwing one of those wakes everyone is worried about : )
JK!
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| Name: |
Swimmer27
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| Subject: |
I remember L.T.L. saying
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Date:
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6/12/2008 7:54:52 AM
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he was in a wreck right in front of one of the marinas on a holiday. The steering broke and all occupants were thrown from the boat and that had it not been for the kill switch, it would have been a horrible disaster. So technically, almost all of you know someone who was saved by a kill switch. Apparently many of you aren't so happy that he survived though....lol.
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| Name: |
jwh445
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| Subject: |
Tournament Regulations
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Date:
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6/12/2008 12:05:08 PM
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I'll give it a try. You're cruising along at 40mph with 5 children frolicking in the bowseats. You, the driver, reach for another beer :-), and the engine cuts off unexpetingly, dumping all 5 kids over the bow. The boat does not come to an immediate stop, and the kids are all wearing PFD's (so they cannot go under to save themselves), you mow down all five and spill your freshly opened beer, all because you forgot you were wearing that danged kill switch. :-) :-)
John
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| Name: |
DroughtBuster
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| Subject: |
Tournament Regulations
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Date:
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6/12/2008 12:22:52 PM
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How about Mountain Dew. They would write that one off as the result of drinking and boating. You'll never win with the MP, theres too many knit picky rules as you're always going to be breaking some sort of rule with a boat load of passengers.
GS
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| Name: |
Tallyman
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| Subject: |
Tournament Regulations
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Date:
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6/12/2008 2:05:51 PM
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JWH45 provided a good reason not to wear one.
My reason for not using it, is that I am safe enough without one. I don't like to wear plastic around my wrist. And I don't need the Alabama Legislature telling me how to operate my boat safely.
If I was operating a bass boat at 50 mph I could figure out all by myself that I would be better off using the kill switch.
Kill switches are yet another case of the government interfering in people's business. So I am against mandating them.
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| Name: |
Summer Lover
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| Subject: |
I remember L.T.L. saying
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Date:
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6/12/2008 3:59:59 PM
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Saved from injury on the water, but thrown under the bus on the forum. :-)
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| Name: |
Swimmer27
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| Subject: |
I remember L.T.L. saying
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Date:
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6/13/2008 8:06:49 AM
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Funny too how he was branded the trouble maker, but so far he is the only banned member that anyone has come out in support of. Personally, if they had said the things they did about me, I would have shown up at their door.
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| Name: |
pi11pipe
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| Subject: |
I remember L.T.L. saying
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Date:
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6/13/2008 11:05:22 AM
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I saw him more as a 'likes to dish it out but can't take it' kind of person.
Who else got banned?
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| Name: |
Swimmer27
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| Subject: |
I remember L.T.L. saying
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Date:
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6/13/2008 11:35:36 AM
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Several, I won't name them, but two of them are on the board of that lake orginization that can no longer be named.
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| Name: |
jalcz
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| Subject: |
I remember L.T.L. saying
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Date:
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6/17/2008 5:03:58 PM
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Probably because he is the only one who is emailing people asking them to support him on the forum. Or to be 100% truthful, he is the only one of them who has emailed *me* and asked me to make posts that support him.
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