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Name:	CAT BOAT -	Reply
Subject:	Game On....GF vs WW
Date:	10/10/2008 5:21:10 PM

How long can "Gone Fishin'" ignore "Water_Watcher". GF is up 15 hours as best I can tell. Should be a good game. Maybe better than the debate.
ps. I must be bored out of my head.

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	Marginal Tax Rates!!!!!!!!!!!
Date:	10/10/2008 5:42:53 PM

From 1993 when Clinton signed the increase in personal income tax until 1997 11.6 million jobs were created. Read that again, 11.6 million jobs were created after the tax increase. In 1997, the capital gains tax was reduced from 28% to 20%.
This brought in an enormous amount of venture capital for small businesses and start ups. The availability of money as a result of the capital gains reduction probably led to the tech bubble and the subsequent melt down of the market but many business were started and have grown as a result.

In 2003, Bush signed a tax reduction which reduced the tax rates at the top 2 brackets and the capital gains tax to todays level.

Obama has called for NO capital gains tax for investing in small businesses and start-ups. He proposes increasing the tax on those earning over $250,000 to the level that existed under Clinton. This is a 10% increase from the current rates. I support that increase. I can't believe that an increase in PERSONAL income tax for those making OVER $250,000 will cause Freshwater to go out of business or cause Martini to lay off staff. It just reduces your net profit that you take home as salary. Kinda like buying one less gold chain or diamond ring.

I do not agree with raising the capital gains tax but support a reduced tax for interest to encourage more savings. I do not support any further tax reduction for those earning under $250,000.

I moved to Florida and pay no state income tax. Revenue is raised through the state sales tax and the tourists. I support a federal consumption tax with a rebate for low earners and do away with the current tax system.

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Marginal Tax Rates!!!!!!!!!!!
Date:	10/10/2008 10:56:50 PM

Interesting that you mention the "dot.com" fantasy. That was an unsustainable house of cards that overheated the economy and gave rise to Clinton's false claim of a budget surplus. What he handed over to Bush was an economy based on a lie - the lie being that the dot.com economy was real, when it was really based on nothing. The fact that it crashed and only those companies with something to offer surviced shouldn't surprise anyone.

By the way, I have been watching and still haven't seen you respond to W-W's challenge to name tax rates. As they say, put up or shut up - or be branded as an empty blowhard.

Cheers,

Nasreddin Hodja

Name:	water_watcher -	Reply
Subject:	Marginal Tax Rates!!!!!!!!!!!
Date:	10/11/2008 7:41:45 AM

Thank you ... you saved me from saying it. the liberals talk about the jobs created under clinton but it was the tech bubble ... it was not real. it busted which started in 1999 and continued for two years after that. we also had 9/11 in 2000. that is what bush had to deal with and we had a strong economy. the mess we are in now also started under clinton when the lowered the threshold for sub prime mortgages and set quotas for banks to increase house ownership for lower incomes.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	No hope for the illiterate
Date:	10/11/2008 11:34:24 AM

GF, I don't know what it was about my posts that you didn't comprehend. You are either hopelessly economically illiterate or so partisan that you are blind to cold, hard realities. So I am going to explain in detail why increases in taxes will cost jobs. But first, do you find it ironic that the Messisah Obama is now saying he may have to hold off on his tax and spending increases because of the negative effect it will have on the economy. Do you also remember Bill Clinton saying that he "increased taxes too much" which hurt the economy and probably lost the election in 2000 for Algore? Both of your heroes admit tax increase hurt the economy. But I suppose you don't care because it is an issue of "fairness", regardless of who really gets hurt which is the middle and lower classes.

So here I go again. And this is not for your benefit because you are impervious to any truth that questions the wisdom of your decision to vote for Obama. This is for those that actually have an open mind.

Running a small business is done with finite resources. What that means is I only have a certain amount of cash to run the business (payroll, rent, etc.). That cash comes from payments by clients (which occurs 60 to 90 days after service is rendered) and my line of credit. When I hire a new employee I begin to pay them a salary and all their benefits, purchase a computer, desk, cell phone, etc. from day one. I do not generate any cash from their work for 60 to 90 days. On average I spend $25,000 over that 60 to 90 days until their work starts to generate cash from client payments. Follow me so far?

So, lets assume for the sake of ease of math that I generate $1M in taxable income and am taxed at 35% on the federal level. That equals $350,000. Let's say that marginal tax rate is increased to 40% (I know it may only be 39.5% but it could be higher but I will use this rate for ease of math). That equals $400,000 in tax payments or $50,000 more in CASH that I have to send to the government. For me that equals two new jobs EACH AND EVERY YEAR THAT I CANNOT CREATE! Are you still with me because if you do not understand the preceding or are impervious to this cold, hard reality then stop reading now because you are hopeless. For those who get this please read on.

You say, well thats only two jobs, big deal. Well, multiply that by 1 million small busineses and that is 2 million new jobs each year that aren't created. It is actually even worse than that. My $25,000 per employee is actually quite high because I hire technical personnel (engineers, scientists, etc.) with degrees. Imagin how many jobs are lost if it only costs $10,000 per employee (5 jobs lost) or $5,000 (10 jobs lost).

You might say so what if small businesses can't create as many new jobs. Here's why it is important. According to the U.S. Department of Commerce, Bureau of the Census, in 2006 alone firms with fewer than 500 employees had a net gain of 1.86 million new jobs, while large firms with 500 or more employees had a net loss of 181,000 jobs. Another interesting fact, in 2006 there were a total of 6.6 million small firms (less than 500 employees) and over 16 million self employed and generated $1.9 trillion in salaries. So, increasing taxes on small businesses has an undeniable, concrete and signifiicant negative impact on our economy.

Does any of this mean anythig to you or are you going to cherry lick some quote from the Obama campaign website or spout some meaningless platitude?!?!?! I keep saying the same thing over and over again. THOSE WHO ARE GOING TO BE HURT BY OBAMA'S TAX INCREASES ARE THE POOR AND MIDDLE CLASS!! I can generate my net income just as easily with 100 employees as I can with 250 employees, and in some ways it is easier. But I feel an obligation to try to create jobs and will do so as long as the government doesn't unduly impede my ability to do so.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	cherry pick...not lick :-)
Date:	10/11/2008 11:37:15 AM

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	More thoughts
Date:	10/11/2008 12:51:55 PM

After re-reading the post I wanted to address the issue of not being able to buy more gold jewelry or whatever class envy B.S. that GF is trying to sell. He doesn't understand that I am going to run my business in a way that I will take home what I need to take home in order to maintain the lifestyle I have. So if taxes are increased I will likely not hire new employees and if necessary lay off employees in order to maintain my income. That is what really happens. The middle class and poor will be the ones to lose jobs.

But let's take GF's approach. The government takes more of my disposable income in the form of higher taxes and so I don't buy some good or service. Who is hurt by that, me?!?!?!? Not even close. For me its just a thing and if I can't afford it so be it. I can live without 95% of the crap I own and be just as happy.

But who really gets hurt? If I can't buy that new boat here's who gets hurt: the guy that assembles the boat loses his $45K per year job, the salesperson that makes $65K per year selling the boat loses their job, the insurance salespeople that makes $50K per year loses their job, the mechanic that makes $60K per year loses their job, the kids who makes $8 per hour pumping gas and selling stuff loses their job. You see, appealing to class envy, while emotionally appealing to the intellectually stunted actually has negative consequences beyond just sticking it to the "rich". I refer you to the real impact of the ill conceived and ill-fated luxury tax of the early 1990s. Devastated the lower and middle income working class in several industries (auto, boating and aircraft).

You see GF, you think Obama is for some new fangled hope and change when all he really stands for is the same old tax and spend liberalism that in all of history has never worked and never will and only hurts those it is supposed to help....the folly of ignoring history......

Name:	Mack -	Reply
Subject:	Unfortunately,,,,
Date:	10/11/2008 7:38:53 PM

I suspect the majority of November Voters do not have a small clue to what has happened to the economy. Most will get their "opinions" from Nightly News at 5 or the like, which in all cases is biased.
1. A Republican President is in office at the time the economy crashes, therefore, vote democrat.
2. An unexperienced black, muslim is running. Vote republican.

Your explanation of the results of a tax change makes perfect sense. But, how many VOTERS have the INTEREST to go beyond what NBC tells them?? Many other issues in the same fashion.
God help us, we need it about now.

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