| Name: |
MartiniMan
- 
|
|
| Subject: |
This is leadership?!?!?
|
|
Date:
|
1/8/2009 11:17:03 AM
|
Is it just me or is the constant barrage of quotes from Obama about how bad things are and how much worse they are going to get more than a little disconcerting? No one wants him to put his head in the sand but the constant barrage of dire warnings is only going to make our economic crisis worsen because it is going to completely destroy what little consumer confidence we have. What is he thinking? He almost sounds panicky to me.
The cynic in me makes me think he is trying to spin this as much worse than it really is so when he finally takes office he can take credit for the turnaround. Or worse yet, to justify the nearly trillion dollars he has already proposed (which we all know will double or triple before the government is done) to borrow for dubious incentives to improve economic growth. Considering we are in this mess in the first place as a result of too much debt, I am bewildered how more debt (even government debt) is going to bail us out. I hope I am being too cynical but his approach to the whole President-Elect business has painted him into a corner and he seems like he is flailing about while there is really nothing he can do until January 20th.
|
| Name: |
MrHodja
-
|
|
| Subject: |
This is leadership?!?!?
|
|
Date:
|
1/8/2009 11:35:32 AM
|
It appears that he is always positioning himself to gain the most political advantage in the future. This is probably an exercise in managing expectations, and yes, I fiormly believe it is part of his strategy to get re-elected in 2012.
I'd personally like to know whether the economists (if you can find any that don't have their own agenda) agree with his gloom and doom predictions.
Massive government spending without a plan will just make it worse, especially if the foreign investors start to re-think buying up our debt.
|
| Name: |
water_watcher
-
|
|
| Subject: |
This is leadership?!?!?
|
|
Date:
|
1/8/2009 11:57:56 AM
|
Have you noticed that he has "again" changed his tune from the $900 billion in spending to create 2 million "new" jobs .... now he is saying it will create "or" save 2 million jobs. In other words he is saving he may not create any new jobs but will say if he did not spend all this money we would have lost 2million more jobs.
What a joke ... anyone can make that claim. The dems were critical of the type of jobs created under Bush, even though it was job creation, saying that it was all low paying jobs. What Bush should have done is said, but I saved 2 million higher paying jobs ... who can prove that it was not the case.
At least the chosen one is not going to roll back the Bush tax cuts (broken promise) and he is talking tax cuts for businesses.
I guess the republican financial advisors he brought in are telling him ... look, you can listen to us and have a chance to turn things around and get a second term when you might get a shot at doing the things you campaigned on .... or you can try to keep the stupid promises you made and have a total colapsed of the econmy and and go down in history as the worst president since Jimmy Carter.
|
| Name: |
AUCATZ
-
|
|
| Subject: |
CYA - pure and simple
|
|
Date:
|
1/8/2009 12:37:47 PM
|
He's all about the 'Spin'. Always has been. Must be scary, given his 'experience', to be facing this, huh? Not easy for anyone, but for a person who has never actually...oh well, never mind. I've said it all before and no one cares.
Change, anyone?
|
| Name: |
MartiniMan
-
|
|
| Subject: |
His speech was awful
|
|
Date:
|
1/8/2009 12:44:58 PM
|
I have been looking at clips of his speech and it was awful. How can he make the kinds of statements of gloom and doom and call that leadership? Recessions come and go and have always righted themselves in 12 to 24 months without the government intervening. He is crushing the consumer's confidence and if he succeeds he will cause a depression. He is consciously trying to ramp up the crisis to justify government intervention through borrowing. This is all so sad and depressing but the fact is he has absolutely no idea how our economy works and who will be responsible for turning this economy around.
This is what we get for electing a glib neophyte liberal in a time of crisis.
|
| Name: |
Summer Lover
-
|
|
| Subject: |
This is leadership?!?!?
|
|
Date:
|
1/8/2009 1:33:18 PM
|
If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with BS - and so he was elected...
|
| Name: |
Talullahhound
-
|
|
| Subject: |
This is leadership?!?!?
|
|
Date:
|
1/8/2009 5:16:12 PM
|
Is it possible that he is just trying to prepare the country that things are going to get worse before they get better.
Would you rather have him tapdancing about how great everything is going? Or taking a cue from Presidnet Bush and denying that there is a problem? You know, I don't want to bash Bush, but until it was really awful, he couldn't even bring himself to admit that there was a problem.
I personally find his candor to be a refeshing change from the last 8 years. Things are bad. He knows he has to manage expectations. Isn't that what a leader does? I think so.
Face it, Obama can't win with any of you. No matter what he does, you will find a way to put a negative spin on it. I'll say it again, maybe he won't be a great transformal Presidemt, but maybe he'll be a good transitional President.
|
| Name: |
Swimmer27
-
|
|
| Subject: |
This is leadership?!?!?
|
|
Date:
|
1/8/2009 5:36:59 PM
|
A leader stands up says I am with you, not I am the only one that can save you.
|
| Name: |
Talullahhound
-
|
|
| Subject: |
This is leadership?!?!?
|
|
Date:
|
1/8/2009 8:59:20 PM
|
I don't think he has said that. Source please.
|
| Name: |
cobra
-
|
|
| Subject: |
This is leadership?!?!?
|
|
Date:
|
1/8/2009 10:04:21 PM
|
The 2009 New Deal. Who said history does not repeat.
The Great Depression dragged on through the 1930s, however, despite the New Deal programs, which met with mixed success in solving the nation's economic problems. Anyone see a trend here with our new president ?
I think maybe Obama should start reading and maybe just maybe he might learn from the past.
28 years ago Ronald Reagan said government was the problem, not the solution. Dealing with a bad recession like this one, the Gipper lowered taxes and domestic spending. Obama on the other hand has offered an $800 billion package, with plenty of infrastructure spending that alleges to create three million jobs.
It almost makes me sick to see where we are going here. That is what we get for electing a liberal. There is nothing I can so I will just watch and probably see most everything I have saved all my life deteriorate.
|
| Name: |
JustAGuy
-
|
|
| Subject: |
This is leadership?!?!?
|
|
Date:
|
1/8/2009 10:57:52 PM
|
MM ... I've learned a lesson. I'm not going to contradict you without facts.
However, I have to ask the question: What do you think Obama should have said in his speech today?
What could he have said that would result in you saying, "Now that's a leader".
I'm not slamming you...... just asking the question. What should O'bama have said in his speech.
Thanks.
(My two cents)
|
| Name: |
pi11pipe
-
|
|
| Subject: |
Here's your link.
|
|
Date:
|
1/9/2009 12:51:41 AM
|
Just follow this to find the source of the quote.
URL: unbiased unimpeachable source
|
| Name: |
Swimmer27
-
|
|
| Subject: |
This is leadership?!?!?
|
|
Date:
|
1/9/2009 7:04:30 AM
|
Ha Ha pillpipe. But one thing is correct. I am unempeachable. I listened to most of the speech on WSB 750 AM radiio out of Atlanta. Barrack says that only governemt can solve this problem i.e. HIM, the messiah, the chosen one. Now I am NOT going to take the time to find the speech online and link it for you. I had a hard enough time stomaching the drivel the first time I heard it Find it yourself and listen. Or listen to ANY right of center news agency and you will hear it for yourself. I ddin't make it up. B HUSSEIN OBAMA said it. You and feb, always with the source.. It makes it seems as if you both think that if YOU haven't heard it, it can't be true.
URL: AD
|
| Name: |
Talullahhound
-
|
|
| Subject: |
No, that's not it
|
|
Date:
|
1/9/2009 8:32:50 AM
|
I'm more than willing to be wrong, and stand corrected if someone can show me their source. But, since you immediately went on the defensive, I assume you don't have a source. To give you the benefit of the doubt, you are paraphrasing something you heard.
|
| Name: |
Talullahhound
-
|
|
| Subject: |
This is leadership?!?!?
|
|
Date:
|
1/9/2009 8:35:47 AM
|
Woe is me, woe is me......wringing of hands.
In case you haven't noticed, Obama has not even taken office yet.
|
| Name: |
MartiniMan
-
|
|
| Subject: |
This is leadership?!?!?
|
|
Date:
|
1/9/2009 9:22:37 AM
|
Great question and I will give you my opinion. First, what he doesn't need to say is all is predictions about how bad it is going to get. When unemployment is at 7% the last thing you want to hear from him is it is going to be 10%. When he says things are the worst ever in our lifetimes it only demonstrates how egocentric he is. My Mom and her generation remember the Depression when unemployment was 30%. When she heard that she scoffed at his arrogance and ignorance as if history began at the age of reason of Obama. When he says the recession could last 4 years or longer when recessions historically last 12 to 24 months without the kind government intervention and socialistic solutions that he is proposing, When he says kids won't be able to afford college, foreclosures will go up, up, up and on and on all he does is fan the flames of negative consumer sentiment. I also don't want to hear him say that we will only recover through government intervention because it is simply false. All that government can do is take money from the productive and give it to others, in the most grotesquely inefficient way. Or even worse, which is what he proposes is to print money increasing the government debt.
So what I would like to hear him say is that yes, times are tough and we are undergoing an economic downturn but what is great about this country is that we always rise to the challenge. That despite our economic downturn we are still the most powerful economic engine in the world and that we need to free that engine to do what it does best. That government has a role to play in the economic recovery but it will only come about when you the consumer become confident that we are coming out of this downturn and begin to spend again. I want him to say that he recognizes that the only way out of a recession is to restore consumer confidence by spurring investment in the private sector. In order to do that I am going to make the tax cuts of 2002 permanent because every single tax bracket was lowered and if that doesn't have the desired impact I am going to lower each tax bracket again in 6 months and make that permanent. I am also going to reduce the maximum corporate tax rate to 20% and permanently increase the Section 179 exemption to $500,000 (indexed to inflation) which will leave more money in the hands of corporations that create jobs. This will also make our corporations more competitive in the global economy and will spur investment. I want him to say he is going to eliminate the death tax because all it does is force small and medium size companies out of business or sold at fire sale prices to pay taxes. I want him to say that the government caused the credit meltdown by distorting the marketplace through well intentioned, but poorly conceived and executed programs that we will be overhauling so they never do this again or eliminating them altogether (i.e. the Community Redevelopment Act). That he no longer supports groups like ACORN that sued banks to force them to make loans to people that everyone knew could never afford to pay them back. That we now recognize that not everyone has to own a home and that we don't do the working poor and lower middle class any favors when we saddle them with ruinous debt simply to score political points. he is not going to take the money of the people of the United States and give it to failing businesses and he will let the markets punish or save them as the market sees fit and if any money goes to businesses it will be to support successful enterprises to provide an incentive to create new jobs. I want him to say that there is a moratorium on expanding the code of federal regulations and in fact, we will reduce the CFR by 20% during my administration. I want him to say we will not pursue the ruinous policies of FDR that turned a worldwide depression into a Great Depression in the United States that could only be resolved by our entry in World War 2. I want him to say that we got into this mess through too much debt and so the federal government is not going to try to solve that problem with more debt.
You see, what I want him to say is from the perspective of an entirely different world view. That government is not the solution, it is the problem. So he could never say what I want to hear, what I believe is the only way to recover from this recession. What would be nice is if he were leading rather than fear mongering to try to panic the public into supporting his ill conceived ideas that have never, ever in the history of mankind worked!! To quote the vacuous John Lennon, "I may be a dreamer but I'm not the only one".
|
| Name: |
Talullahhound
-
|
|
| Subject: |
This is leadership?!?!?
|
|
Date:
|
1/9/2009 9:44:58 AM
|
Just confirms my suspicions that you really want to run for national office.
Maybe you could be his speech writer.
|
| Name: |
MartiniMan
-
|
|
| Subject: |
Can you imagine that?
|
|
Date:
|
1/9/2009 9:58:03 AM
|
JAG asked for it! I would love to see the look on Nancy Pelosi or Harry Reid's faces if I wrote a speech for him. They would assume he is the Manchurian Candidate but instead of being a commie he is even worse, a supply side conservative. That would be funny. :-)
All jokes aside, I really can't afford the pay cut........OK, that was a joke as well.
|
| Name: |
MartiniMan
-
|
|
| Subject: |
This is leadership?!?!?
|
|
Date:
|
1/9/2009 10:24:37 AM
|
No, he didn't say that directly but the entire tone of the speech was government (which he will lead) is the solution. He even said the recovery "......begins with this plan – a plan I am confident will save or create at least three million jobs over the next few years."
That is a pipe dream because his plan is all about bigger and more intrusive federal government, 600,000 more government jobs, spending money on programs that do nothing more than transfer wealth from the productive to companies that will build roads and bridges and alternative energy sources, etc. (of course after the bureaucracy of government wastes 50 cents of every dollar that goes out the door). With oil at $45 / barrel I am at a loss to understand how investing government funds in unproven and more costly energy sources does anything the help the economy in the short run except to mollify his environmental wacko supporters.
Government needs to get out of the way!
|
| Name: |
Swimmer27
-
|
|
| Subject: |
This is leadership?!?!?
|
|
Date:
|
1/9/2009 12:22:32 PM
|
Actually MM the line was something to the effect of ..... the problem is so large that only governmet can fix it. I have more time now so I will search for the exact quote so Hound can be satisfied.
|
| Name: |
Swimmer27
-
|
|
| Subject: |
The EXACT quote....
|
|
Date:
|
1/9/2009 12:29:32 PM
|
"At this particular moment, only government can provide the short-term boost necessary to lift us from a recession this deep and severe."
Now this was pulled from a website that I am sure you will disparage. It belongs to the intepid Neal Boortz, A libitarian, America's "rude awakening", Now that you have the exact quote research it yourself. With an MBA I am sure I dont hav tell you how to use Google.
and BTW- you apology is accepted.
URL: Neal Bootzs' Website
|
| Name: |
JustAGuy
-
|
|
| Subject: |
Can you imagine that?
|
|
Date:
|
1/9/2009 7:11:57 PM
|
Great answer MM!
That's kind of what I suspected. Anthing short of "I am Barack Obama, and I am now a conservative Republican" would be a failure.
I like the depth of your answer thought. I won't mistake you again as someone just popping off on a message board.
|
| Name: |
MartiniMan
-
|
|
| Subject: |
Can you imagine that?
|
|
Date:
|
1/9/2009 11:09:12 PM
|
Thanks.....I think. At least I am true to my conservative principals. Having said that, I obviously never expected Obama to say all the things I wanted. But I think he doesn't need to be a conservative to not come off as panicky and lacking in leadership or as an opportunist willing to drive us deeper into despair inorder to pass his big government non-solution.
|
| Name: |
Swimmer27
-
|
|
| Subject: |
You stand corrected
|
|
Date:
|
1/10/2009 4:52:13 PM
|
So NOW what do you have to say. Still think I just made it up? I am sure you said that if it was sourced, you would accept that you were wrong.
|
Ok. I'm wrong, but then MM seems to have a different interpretation than what you quoted.
But I'll stand corrected by both of you, and let you both sort it out. I didn't accuse you of lying, I just wanted to know your source.
|
|
New Post
Search
Off-Topic Forum
Reply
»
Alabama Lakes
»
Claiborne Reservoir
Login
|
Home
