| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
ideologues vs. pragmatist
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Date:
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4/11/2009 8:37:36 AM
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I just read a good piece on NationalJournal.com by Bill Schneider (yeah I know, just another member of the left-wing media elite) discussing early prospects for the GOP in 2012. One paragraph sums up my thoughts on many, perhaps most issues. "Ideologues believe if a policy is wrong it can't possibly work - even when
it does. Pragmatist believe whatever works is right...most Americans are pragmatists".
I've referred to myself and most Americans as being moderates on most issues and have been much derided by Martini Man and other "idelogues" who frequent this forum. From now on I'm calling myself a pragmatist just like most of my fellow citizens.
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| Name: |
Summer Lover
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| Subject: |
ideologues vs. pragmatist
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Date:
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4/11/2009 9:10:17 AM
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"Ideologues believe if a policy is wrong it can't possibly work - even when it does. Pragmatist believe whatever works is right...most Americans are pragmatists".
I guess morals and values do not come into play in your world. Please advise, since you are the pragmatist, if something works "right now", but will have detrimental results next year, is it considered to be the right thing to do?
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| Name: |
au67
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| Subject: |
ideologues vs. pragmatist
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Date:
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4/11/2009 9:11:25 AM
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"whatever works is right" sounds a lot like apathy to me.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Pragmatist=Liberal
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Date:
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4/11/2009 10:07:27 AM
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Architect gets all his news and ideas from leftists like Schneider but is still ashamed to admit he is a liberal. First a Moderate and now a Pragmatist. What's next after I prove you are no pragmatist?
Not once have I ever seen a post fromn you that comes close to a conservative principal. We have proven that government has never in all of history successfully spent its way out of a recession and tax cuts work every time they are tried but the "pragmatist" in you just can't go along. You love big government and don't trust the private sector motivated by evil profit (or greed if you prefer).
C'mon, you can say it, "I am a liberal!". Go ahead, get it out...you will feel so much better being honest with yourself and us.......you can do it......there, didn't that feel better?
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| Name: |
alahusker
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| Subject: |
ideologues vs. pragmatist
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Date:
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4/11/2009 4:55:52 PM
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Tried to get 'T square head' (aka architect) to agree on a couple of ideals.. But I'm an idealogue so guess it does not count.. To paraphrase my previous questions;
1. Does captalism work better than socialism?
2. Has the welfare system bettered the underpriviliged or just created a dependent class of society??
3. Is the govermnent doing a good job controlling the borders, running social security, medicare and the postal system?
4. Given the track record on #3, do you really want Washington to take care of your health care??
Whatever, have fish to clean.. Crappie and a lot of them..
regards,
burke
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| Name: |
rude evin
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| Subject: |
Architect
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Date:
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4/11/2009 5:55:46 PM
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You can put lipstick on that pig if you want........but, she ain't gonna look nor smell any better.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Now Really
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Date:
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4/11/2009 8:01:29 PM
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Exactly how many pigs have you put lipstick on-- and a light spray of Chanel #5 works wonders.... LOL (just being silly)
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| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
ideologues vs. pragmatist
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Date:
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4/11/2009 9:42:20 PM
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(1) Socialism doesn't work as any good pragmatist can tell you. Capitalism works great until greed and dishonesty become its controlling principal.
(2) Welfare didn't work. That's why Clinton, Gingrich and the Republican Congress changed it.
(3/4)My wife and mother in law are on Social Security and are thankful for it and consider it a fine and well run program. All 3 of us are on medicare and frankly consider it far superior in efficiency and results than the private insurance nightmares we suffered through in the past.
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| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
Pragmatist=Liberal
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Date:
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4/11/2009 9:58:42 PM
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I voted for both Ronald Reagan (84) an George W (04). I don't know of a single true liberal friend,and I have many, who could say that. I do have many pragmatic friends who did because Reagan in his first term demonstrated he was much less of an ideologue than one would think. As for W, well he faked it in his first term and a lot of us fell for it. MM do you think it is possible to be an honorable, thoughtful and responsible citizen yet not be on the extreme right or left end our political spectrum? If not then you must be miserable and frightened living among so many dishonorable, unthinking and irresponsible people.
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| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
ideologues vs. pragmatist
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Date:
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4/11/2009 10:16:52 PM
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Of course morals and values must be taken into account. If it is a solution that will be generally detrimental in the future or for that matter detrimental to a large sector of the people in the present it isn't "working". I wish Wall Street and the banks had shown such scruples over the last 10 or 12 years!
PS: I can imagine MM salivating. My reply is something can be nonbeneficial while also be nondetrimental. A policy which benefits only some people is not automatically detrimental to all the others.
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| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
ideologues vs. pragmatist
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Date:
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4/12/2009 7:47:04 AM
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After I went to bed last night I remembered your Post Office example. I think the PO is a pretty well run agency, What private company can deliver a letter from Key West to Nome in less than 5 days for less than 1/2 dollar. The PO is like the public schools, they do a reasonable job when you consider what they are required to do and what they have to work with (i.e. their clients). What we hate is not the service the PO renders but the customer service we receive at the counter. I got that kind of service at the Rite Aide prescription last Thursday and at the Verizon tech help counter last month and a numerous counters between the two.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Pragmatist=Liberal
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Date:
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4/12/2009 10:07:37 AM
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First of all I am neither miserable nor frightened. I am a very happy, secure financially successful conservative who has a deep faith that I practice. In my experience, and it is borne out by numerous studies, it is liberals that are unhappy, anxious and angry as we saw during the G20. That was a miserable bunch if there ever was.
I really can't answer your question because I don't know how you define extreme in either direction. I believe what I believe because facts and logic lead me to the truth. If you ever presented facts that supported a change in my views I would certainly reconsider. Until then I will believe in what is true regardless of labels.
Whether that falls into your spectrum of extreme right I don't know because you will need to define it for me.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
ideologues vs. pragmatist
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Date:
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4/12/2009 10:11:11 AM
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Your wife and mother are happy with SS? Well my Mom lives with us because all she has is SS and if she had to live on it alone she would be eating dog food. SS is an abomination and if a private company ran it they would be in prison right now. It is truly an insupportable ponzi scheme. I can assure you if you have been a responsible citizen that has prepared for retirement and are younger than 50 years old you will never see a dime of social security.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
ideologues vs. pragmatist
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Date:
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4/12/2009 10:16:04 AM
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You keep blaming banks and Wall Street for this mess even though numerous posters have demonstrated conclusively that the CRA and Fannie/Freddie (aka government intervention in the markets) was the predominant cause of the credit meltdown. They skewed the markets, the markets responded in search of profits and the rest is history.
Architect-another fact free liberal that believes so much that just isn't true. Oh, I'm sorry, another fact free pragmatist that believes so much that just isn't true....my mistake...
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Not to Change the Subject
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Date:
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4/12/2009 12:43:04 PM
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But, if you have never had a good experience at the Post Office, go to the little Post Office in Equality. Never had better, more courteous service, and the Post Mistress always says thank you for using our post office!
Now y'all can resume your debate.
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| Name: |
alahusker
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| Subject: |
ideologues vs. pragmatist
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Date:
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4/12/2009 6:41:11 PM
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Well pal, the US Postal System may not be a good point for you to debate. No doubt, the people at the Dadeville Post Office are awesome, friends and fellow community members.. Love them all..
but federal government management of the system may be suspect.. Thought I caught wind that the whole program would be broke in the next 6 months, unless saturday delivery was on the chopping block. Let me know if I'm ill informed.. I'm a conservative that listens and thinks..
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