| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Cheney 1, Obama 0
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Date:
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5/13/2009 9:44:02 PM
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I give Obama credit in stating that that there is no merit to releasing the photo's that leftists want to have released as Dick Cheney rightly pointed out. I trust he will have the strength to withstand the withering attacks from the ACLU and other anti-American groups and side with our troops and their safety. Just one positive outcome of Dick Cheney rightly pointing out the concern about some of the decisions coming out of the administration.
What seems to have escaped the addled brains of leftists is that we had terrorist attacks on the U.S. multiple times during the Clinton administration (WTC 1993, Kobhar Towers 1996, USS Cole 1998 to name a few notable ones) and only one during the Bush administration (911). All before Dick Cheney was VP and W was President. The difference was 8 years of fecklessness and multiple attacks followed by 8 years of aggressive protection. Many of the Obama administration decisions have the potential to make us less safe and more prone to attack. This is one he figured out before the damage is done. Good for him.
Now he needs to reverse course on Guantanomo, enhanced interrogation, enhanced tracking of terrorist money, etc. We know what works to protect Americans from determined terrorists. Why risk the lives of Americans simply to satisfy the rabid left (aka, Soros, Moveon, etc.). He used them to get elected but now he needs to do the adult thing and screw them over. He needn't worry, the media will cover for him and the leftists will support him again in 2012.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Cheney 1, Obama 0
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Date:
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5/13/2009 10:15:32 PM
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Figures you'd fall for Cheney's saber rattling. Next you'll want to bring back Tom Ridge so we can have the "stoplight" lunacy.
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
Cheney 1, Obama 0
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Date:
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5/13/2009 10:23:46 PM
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Hound, that's really weak.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Cheney 1, Obama 0
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Date:
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5/13/2009 10:34:21 PM
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No it's not. We're safer because we're more aware and the Bush Administration poured money into redeveloping humit networks.
I don't think we are safer because we kept a bunch of low level fighters in Guantanamo for years. We might have got a couple of items from "enhanced interrogation", but torture is against American principles.
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
Cheney 1, Obama 0
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Date:
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5/13/2009 11:54:53 PM
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Its all a matter of perspective....torture is a subjective term. What you might term torture I might term enhanced interrogation. Now if they were to pull out finger and toenails, or remove family jewels, in my book that is torture. Playing on their psyche I am not so sure is torture.
How many of them emerged disfigured, maimed, or dead?
In case you didn't realize it this is a cruel world we live in. Yes, we have principles. But if keeping to those principles means the end of the republic, I say we revisit those principles.
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| Name: |
Pontoonfisher
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| Subject: |
Cheney 1, Obama 0
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Date:
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5/14/2009 7:30:21 AM
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Somebody get hound some smelling salts and wake him up!!!!
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| Name: |
lamont
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| Subject: |
I'm Probably in the minority..
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Date:
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5/14/2009 9:26:01 AM
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but I happen to admire Cheney. In my humble opinion, he is a true non-politician, politician. He speaks his mind, w/o a teleprompter, and really doesn't give a sh!! about what the populace thinks. Yeah, he's a little "crusty" but, I think he is very much under-rated. OK, Hound, GF, JAG and Arch.........take your best shot. I walked right into this one.
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| Name: |
Council Roc Doc
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| Subject: |
Cheney 1, Obama 0
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Date:
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5/14/2009 9:28:44 AM
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Well stated and I couldn't agree more.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
No you're not
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Date:
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5/14/2009 9:46:55 AM
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I admire him much more than Bush. The reason he is so despised by the left is he is so calm, intellectual, rational and convincing in his presentation (basically the exact opposite of how they try to represent him). They can't compete with him in the arena of ideas so they make ad hominum attacks to try to discredit a very cogent conservative voice.
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| Name: |
GoneFishin
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| Subject: |
No you're not
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Date:
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5/14/2009 6:27:03 PM
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When Cheney broke with the Right over gay rights out of compassion for his daughter, he became a person who, while I do not agree with him on a number of issues, I have the utmost respect for.
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| Name: |
rude evin
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| Subject: |
lamont.........
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Date:
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5/14/2009 11:35:26 PM
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I also agree with your take on Dick Cheney.........I've had two occasions to view Mr. Cheney in fairly small gatherings. Once during the first Gulf war time frame when as guests of Newt G. in DC with some fellow Chamber of Commerce types, Newt invited Mr Cheney to address the group and for 45 minutes he held forth without a teleprompter on the big picture issues and then stayed another 45 min for Q & A. The other time was as VP he was campaigning in Macon Ga (around 2001 I think) for Saxby Chambliss and Sonny Perdue and put on quite a show which included a reasoned approach for their national policies and the need for more Republican office holders........which he helped elect. My observation of these Cheney bashers is that they fear his effectiveness and they also know that they can't fill out his jockey strap............ :-}
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| Name: |
lamont
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| Subject: |
Wow....
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Date:
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5/15/2009 8:10:23 AM
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Thought I was going to get bashed on this one. Apparently, there are others out there that appreciate those who don't stick their finger up in the air to see which way the wind is blowing. Like him or not, it's hard to argue with his straight forward approach and not-give-a-shi!! attitude.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
No you're not
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Date:
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5/15/2009 11:00:56 AM
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GF, I would like to think if I were in his shoes I could find a way to hold onto my principals about the radical homosexual agenda and maintain my relationship with one of my children in a similar situation.
As it says in the bible, pray you don't undergo the test.....
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
If you like and admire him
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Date:
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5/15/2009 6:10:05 PM
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so be it. He's a powerful man who operates mostly behind the scenes. Lots of people thought he was a pretty good SecDef when he was in that job.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
It's always been a dangerous
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Date:
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5/15/2009 6:15:05 PM
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world. 9/11 just made it plain in the rudest, cruelest possible way. Our enemies cut off the head of Daniel Pearl and others -- should we start cutting off heads and posting the pictures on the internet because our enemies do it?
I think that argument is a very slippery slope. And I personally think America and Americans are better than that.
It doesn't make us safer. It just makes us more like them.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Wow....
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Date:
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5/15/2009 6:21:57 PM
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He's hardly straight forward -- he's a behind the scenes deal maker. And he doesn't have to give a sh*t because he's probably got the goods on a number of other powerful people. Right now, he's all the GOP has got who's even intelligible. He's got his message and he's on it.
He's definitely not stupid, and he plays the Washington game really well; and he knows how to use the media.
I get such a kick out of y'all who seem to think that not using a teleprompter is some kind of indication of something. Most don't use a teleprompter when they are showing up for a grip and grin when no policy is being made and no hard questions are going to be asked.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
It's always been a dangerous
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Date:
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5/16/2009 8:31:41 AM
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Hound, I think you can have the intellectual honesty to admit that enhanced interrogation techniques (EIT) are a far cry from beheading someone and no one here is suggesting that comparison except you. I think the point Cheney was making is some insight into the outcome of using those techniques......saving the lives of thousands and possibly hundreds of thousands of U.S. lives (which is why the Obama administration isn't willing to release the information gleaned).
Would you agree that use of deadly force in self defense is morally justified? I certainly do or we would need to get rid of our police force. Well, in my view and the view of many, use of EIT against terrorists is the mildest form of self defense and has and will save lives. I would have absolutely no problem using EIT to obtain information to save your life and would feel it was my moral obligation to do so.
I recognize this isn't your world view nor that of liberals in general and I respect that. But that is why in my opinion liberals can't be trusted to be in those positions of power and one of many reasons why I won't vote from them. They care more about what Islamofascists think about them than keeping me and my family safe.
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I agree that in certain circumstances the use of deadly force is necessary. And I wasn't trying to say that beheading is the same as using EIT. But, I think rationalization is a slippery slope.
Where does it end? We'd be "safer" if we dropped an nuclear bomb on the whole of the Middle East and wiped out all the terrorists and potential and future terrorists. I'm always a little skeptical when we allow ourselves to rationalize our behaviors. But, on the other hand, if we, as a culture, are really okay with ETI, then we shouldn't be portraying ourselves as otherwise.
And I question whether you and your family are really safer as a result of waterboarding. We don't have access to the intelligence, and we'll likely never know, but I still would like to know how much "actionable" intelligence we got as a result before I agree with you that we're "safer" as a result.
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| Name: |
lamont
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| Subject: |
Can always count on Hound...
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Date:
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5/16/2009 12:54:34 PM
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Your post is rediculuos in so mamy ways. Let's start with, He's got the goods on a lot of powerful people. All I've got to say to that is, if these low-lifes didn't put their goods out there to be had, their goods wouldn't be out there for the takin. You know, a little self-control and discipline. And then there's "All the GOP has got who's even intelligible." Wow, there's that Democrat Intellectual Superiority Complex shining through again. What a joke. And we follow up with, "knows how to use the media." I love this one the best. Yeah, he looks them in the eye, tells them exactly how he feels, regardless of consequence and in his own words, doesn't flinch and tells what he believes to be the truth. What a horrible trait. Pelosi ought to try it. It's called conviction and honesty. Geeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzz.
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| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
No you're not
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Date:
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5/16/2009 5:36:31 PM
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I also generally disagree with Cheny but bless his heart for being human enough to put love above politics. Unlike Newt who refused to attend his own lesbian sister,s comitment ceremony with her longtime partner. Some people in the public eye put class above politics such as Cheney regarding his daughter and Harry Truman who attended the funeral of his political mentor Big Jim Pendergast the boss of the K.C. machine. He had died in disgrace after being released from prison. A reporter questioned Truman as to why he would attend the last rites for such a man. Truman responded "because he was my friend". Some people have class and some don't.
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| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
No you're not
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Date:
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5/16/2009 5:45:36 PM
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By the way even Neil Boortz poo poos the "radical homosexual agenda" describing it as "making the world safe for track lighting". One of my best friends in this world is an outed gay who is a rock ribbed Republican on every issue except for their own "radical social agenda". Do you reject his company in the party MM?
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
No
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Date:
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5/16/2009 7:23:46 PM
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1. We don't know what we don't know. Others do, and sometimes we just have to trust them. When you take a commercial airline flight, do you question and debate every decision the pilot makes?
2. We have to decide first of all if we think our way of life and our country is worth preserving. If the answer is yes, then we need to do just enough for our country and way of life to exist as we want it to be. If we can do that and take the highest moral road, then I am all for it. But if we have to bend because some raghead yayhoo is jealous of what we have and wants to destroy us, then I am for whatever means it takes to preserve the republic. And if that means bringing a known terrorist near death's door in order to gain information that will allow us to prevail, then hand me the hose. Its a little like a boxer who is good enough to defeat an opponent with one hand tied behind his (or her) back - until a more formidable opponent shows up -- and to win the boxer has to untie that second hand.
Nasreddin Hodja
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He's clearly got you right where he wants you.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
I agree
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Date:
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5/18/2009 3:57:14 PM
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with you that if the survival of the republic is at stake, then we should do whatever we need to do. But, was the survival of the republic at stake? I'm willing to concede that it's complicated and the choices are not always cut and dried. I would not want the job to make the distinction between degrees of EIT.
Having said that, our national position has always been that "we don't do torture". And my point is that if we have changed our national position, then we should say that and live with the fall out.
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| Name: |
lamont
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| Subject: |
Yeah
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Date:
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5/19/2009 9:27:12 AM
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Same place Obama has you.
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
Well
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Date:
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5/19/2009 9:36:00 AM
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Ever the cynic when it comes to the Republicans, Ever the cockeyed optimist when it comes to the Messiah.
Might it be that he is telling the truth, no matter how it might be contrary to the liberal agenda?
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a cynic when it comes to Republicans. Nor am I a cockeyed optimist when it comes to Obama. And my not seeing Cheney as some straight talking and honest person is not a liberal agenda.
The truth is I don't care much about Cheney either way. He's defending what they did and I suspect he is hoping the truth never comes out. You won't believe me that Cheney is a "behind the scenes" power broker, but that's okay. You believe what you want, I'll believe what I want and the historians will make the judgements.
When the GOP finally decides what their agenda is and who is going to lead it, then I'll decide where I stand with it. In the meantime, I'm supporting the President. I don't agree with everything he is doing, but that would be true no matter who was in there.
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
Not
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Date:
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5/19/2009 10:28:59 PM
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1. On this forum you have been steadfast in your defense of the current administration - even when it is really a stretch to do so.
2. You have been equally as critical of the Bush administration - without fail.
3. You have no clue as to what I think or believe. Don't go there.
4. And what is wrong with being a behind-the-scenes power broker? It is actually refreshing to have had a VP whose opinion mattered (not going to try to debate whether it was too much).
I'll be going to your old stomping grounds tomorrow. I'll try to drive on the "right" side of the road while there. Had trouble in San Diego last week -- couldn't find a "right" side of the road to drive on.....:>)
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You are right, I have no idea what you think or believe because you don't ever say -- just take pot shots at me and others who do. At least I have no problem with being honest. It's okay with me if you don't agree with me. Just like you, I have one vote.
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
Not
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Date:
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5/23/2009 5:59:01 PM
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I have tried repeatedly to post a reply - but it doesn't take. Maybe I will just email a response (the failure may have something to do with copying some text from a Word document).
NH
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