| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
We fear what???
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Date:
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5/23/2009 11:38:00 AM
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How can any politician be frozen with fear at the thought of a Gitmo inmate being held in a max security US prison but be in favor without reservation of permitting loaded and concealed handguns in our National Parks?
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| Name: |
Swimmer27
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| Subject: |
It's called sanity!!
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Date:
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5/23/2009 12:38:49 PM
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Nobody is 'frozen in fear' at them being in supermax. The legitimate fears are what the ACLU, Moveon.org, Huffington Posts, Hate America First libs and courts will do FOR them once they get here.
AS for guns in National Parks? How about we get them out of the ghettos, that is where they are being used to kill folks. When was the last time you heard of a 'drive by' in a national park? In a ghetto?
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| Name: |
Feb
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| Subject: |
We fear what???
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Date:
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5/23/2009 12:46:08 PM
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Do you have a position on the issues stated in your question? To me it is black and white without any gray areas.
The only reason for GITMO is it is off U.S. soil, and our laws do not apply. Otherwise a Maximum security prison is actually more secure. Therefore, the judicial system will have a very difficult time charging any official including Bush/Cheney for any offense. Pretty smart (maybe the only time they ever listened to advice).
Now for guns in and on public places. I will go with it if there was a universal procedure allowing sane, reasonable, and certified carriers. There is not.
I was in the new Mexican Food place in Dadeville the other afternoon. I could recognize the carriers without the guns actually being exposed (concealed). Look at their waist line and at their ankles. You will not find many carriers in short pants. They were in jeans and t-shirts, and they could of been law enforcement for all I know. Did I feel safer or not? I am not sure, but I have been shot at before and you never forget. I never like it when someone else is armed, and I am not.
Of course, I am nuts anyway.
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| Name: |
Feb
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| Subject: |
It's called sanity!!
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Date:
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5/23/2009 12:56:33 PM
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I kind of agree with the exception of ghettos. I never go there. You never want to go anywhere when you have anything of value and they have absolutely nothing. Your life is not worth much, but your wallet, credit cards, watch and etc. is enough for another fix. LOL
I am not afraid and have no fear, but Survivalist do concern me to a greater degree. These are mostly not law abiding citizens and I would suggest actually brain washed to the degree of anger, fear and superb killers.
This is who most of us should worry about.
Then there is the Mexican Cartels and their distribution channels which is the next American major concern according to the news.
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| Name: |
Mulligan
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| Subject: |
We fear what???
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Date:
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5/23/2009 4:39:20 PM
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Arch:
Here's why. The criminals in Gitmo are Islamic terrorists that want to kill all of us, and the folks carrying loaded guns in the Nat'l parks are law abiding US citizens, like me, who want to protect us, all of us.
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| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
We fear what???
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Date:
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5/23/2009 5:00:45 PM
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How do you know?
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| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
We fear what???
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Date:
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5/23/2009 5:02:29 PM
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and, how do you know?
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| Name: |
Feb
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| Subject: |
We fear what???
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Date:
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5/23/2009 6:28:19 PM
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Exactly, and what do you suggest. Do not come up with an issue until you state a position or a recommended solution.
I will loose all respect for you otherwise. It shows you have no reasoning ability.
It is easy to raise issues and much more difficult to come up with solutions.
We need solutions and not vice versa.
OK, now tell us where you stand and what you believe. Lets hear it.
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| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
We fear what???
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Date:
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5/23/2009 11:26:33 PM
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What are you getting at? I started off by mentioning the irony, at least in my mind, that the same people who fear prisoners in maximum security have no fear of nuts running around National Parks with hidden loaded pistols.
My later posts were in response to Mulligan's statements about murdering islamo terrorists in gitmo. How does he know?... He doesn't. If all the Gitmo prisoners are so dangerous why have we already let most of them out? He then makes the claim that only law abiding citizens will be carrying in the Parks. How does he know?...He doesn't. I don't know if Tim McVeigh ever entered a National Park, but if the new regulations had been in place in the week before he blew up the Okla City Federal Bldg and if he had entered a park in that week he would have been within the law as long as he was carrying his legally registered hand gun. I hope Mulligan and the rest of you aren't foolish enough to believe only "law abiding citizens" have registered hand guns Remember every criminal is law abiding until they commit their first crime.
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| Name: |
Swimmer27
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| Subject: |
I don't remember....
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Date:
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5/24/2009 7:51:45 AM
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...... Tim Mcveigh even having guns when he was caught. If you want to live among these guys so much, why not move to Afghanistan? I'll buy your ticket!! One way of course. There, if you talked like you do hear, they would most likely behead you, just being such a wimp. They would most certainly exploit you in some way, while laughing at the 'stupid American'. I for one would be glad to be rid of you. In fact I would rather have one of the GITMO guys here than you. AT LEAST THEY ADMIT THEIR DESIRE TO DESTROY AMERICA AND KILL US!!. You libtards are too dumb to even realize that is what you are doing.
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| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
I don't remember....
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Date:
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5/24/2009 11:28:31 AM
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See my 11:19:04 post above. Your post does it agaiin.
I don't believe I said Tim McVeigh had a gun when he was caught. He did have ownership of legally registered guns but I hope even you don't think of him as a law abiding citizen. Oh, perhaps you in your heart of hearts you actually admire him since he was an American "Christian" citizen blowing up a hated Governmentfacility.
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
I don't remember....
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Date:
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5/24/2009 11:43:44 AM
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You are one sick puppy. It must be tough to walk around with that much anger built up inside. To even suggest that those with differing opinions would approve of an act such as the one McVeigh perpetrated or admire such a person is patently offensive and does nothing more than degrade your argument.
I have yet to see anything on this forum that would hint at extremism or the posters being a "fringe element". Au contraire, I believe those who post on this forum are speaking for the majority of Americans. Their ideas just don't conveniently match yours.
You are entitled to your opinion, and I for one look forward to debating the issues. But if calling someone "stupid" is your concept of debate, forget it.
Oh, by the way, I was brought up in a Democratic family headed by a railway clerk, worked my way through college, spent 22 years in the Air Force, retired as a Lt Colonel, have been working as a Defense contractor doing computer security work since, go to an Anglican church, have three kids, one adopted during a tour in Korea, two grandkids, and for many years (until my travel schedule prevented it) coached soccer to the high school level and refereed soccer to the college level. Your Government trusts me with many of its most closely guarded secrets. So am I one of those "extremists" on the "fringe"? If I am, then how in the Good Lord's name do you define mainstream?
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| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
I don't remember....
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Date:
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5/24/2009 5:27:10 PM
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You sound like a great guy, but it seems you are the one filled with anger. I do not call the posters on this forum stupid. I do call many of their ideas and comments stupid and unreasonable. I also hope it never comes to the point that their comments are not welcome in the marketplace of ideas in this nation. Now, I have been called "a disgrace", "pea brained", "Socialist", and "stupid" by posters on this site. I consider it an honor to be so thought of by most of them.
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| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
I don't remember....
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Date:
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5/24/2009 5:35:00 PM
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Oh I just read a couple of enlightened posts further down. Add "idiot" and "chicken sxxt" to the list of attributes your fellow posters have credited to me. You guys must be pretty proud of such reasoned discourse.
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
I don't remember....
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Date:
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5/24/2009 6:00:45 PM
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"You guys" is far too broad a brush to be painting with. I can honestly say that I have never met ANY of the posters on this forum and have only spoken to one over the phone - and that was about a boat maintenance issue.
I do not condone name calling and if I ever do I'll apologize for it. Maybe rather than saying you are a "sick puppy" I should have said mentally imbalanced - in any case you can take up the name calling with those who engage in such behavior - but not me.
I am not angry in the least, but I am seriously concerned about the direction our country is taking. In a serious debate I would tell you that I think the Bush administration made some serious mistakes, but it would have to be in a give and take, not anything like the animosity I see on this forum.
It really disturbs me that one of the first things the Obama administration and Democratic Congress did was to spend literally trillions of dollars - on what I am still not sure - money that we don't have to spend and that our kids and grandkids will have to pay back. It really bothers me that the egregious and irresponsible spending has all of a sudden become yesterday's news and nobody seems to be alarmed any more.
I have not traveled as extensively as many, but have spent time in over a half dozen foreign countries and lived in two. Each has its attractive points, but none come anywhere close to the USA in quality of life, opportunity, and the pursuit of happiness. Ours is not a perfect country, but theirs is far more imperfect and what I see from Obama is leading us straight to where they are now.
If there are indeed serious wrongs to right, your vitriol is going to do nothing but further entrench those who don't share your opinion. You have said some things that made me stop and think - but I have to get past my emotional reaction before I can addrss yuour logic and reason.
You seem to paint the people in the Bush administration as evil. Overly strident, maybe, maybe not. You can't argue with their results. You might argue that the same results could have been achieved through less strident means, but that doesn't make them evil. Given the situation theirs was the solution with the highes chance of success.
As to Gitmo being a recruiting tool, I don't know. Maybe so - maybe not. My experience with the US military is that we didn't do something on a whim, and I suspect that was the case here. If a grenade is launched from a hous occupied by three men, how are we to know which is the terrorist and which an innocent bystander? Maybe we arrest all three and guarantee ourselves we got the trigger man. Any other solution (except maybe theirs which would be to kill all three) leaves open the possibility that a terrorist goes free to kill another day.
So, to sum it up for now, we live in a world of shades of grey. The lesson I would hope we learned from 9/11 is this: Do whatever is necessary to ensure it doesn't happen again". Some of the methods chosen to do that may anger parts of our citizenry, but in my book err on the side of ensuring our homeland safety.
Now, if you choose to cherry-pick and take potshots at what I said I will disengage and never answer another of yur posts. Engage in civil discourse - willing to hear my points as well as espouse yours, and we may make some progress.
Nasreddin Hodja
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| Name: |
alahusker
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| Subject: |
Mr. Hodja..
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Date:
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5/24/2009 9:00:06 PM
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If riding the mule, guess you might be watching the architect??
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
Mr. Hodja..
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Date:
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5/24/2009 9:14:08 PM
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I'd think so.
You did some research...:>)
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| Name: |
alahusker
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| Subject: |
Mr. Hodja..
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Date:
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5/24/2009 9:29:23 PM
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Yup.. Very entertaining dude with great perspective and insight. This forum and architect would have been fertile ground, had he had a wireless modem..
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
Mr. Hodja..
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Date:
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5/24/2009 9:33:13 PM
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I still have a wooden statue of the Hodja on his donkey that we procured while stationed in Turkey in the late 60s....he was definitely a hoot....
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
It figures
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Date:
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5/25/2009 10:38:30 AM
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you would be honored to be called a Socialist, Archie. Considering it has never worked and will never work it is a perfect fit for your world view. By the way, I don't think you are stupid or pea brained, you are just wrong. As Ronald Reagan said so well, liberals believe so much that just isn't so. How true that is for you. Sadly, I think you really do believe what you write.
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| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
I don't remember....
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Date:
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5/25/2009 7:09:01 PM
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Excellent post. I especially agree that we live in a world of shades of gray. My problem with many of the posts on this forum is that they see only the black or white and never the gray. I have my opinions but freely acknowledge that history may prove them lacking. Most of the posters not only think their opinions are right but absolutly know they are not just the right opinion but the only possible opinion that should prevail. I still believe that the most dangerous man in the world is the man who is unwilling to consider that he may be wrong.
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| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
I don't remember....
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Date:
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5/25/2009 7:15:58 PM
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Sorry, I misplaced the above comment. I refer of course to your 5/24/...6:00:45PM post. Thanks for not calling names and instead merely calling me mentally unbalanced. I may be but so far I have not been diagnosed as such.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Pot calling the kettle black
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Date:
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5/27/2009 3:24:30 PM
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You place such a high price on being willing to admit one may be wrong but I never recall you considering your position being wrong despite repeated posts that refuted your position with facts and logic. Why is that?
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| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
It figures
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Date:
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5/27/2009 3:43:48 PM
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Of course I believe what I say or I wouldn't say it. I also freely concede I may someday be proved wrong and the same may happen to you but you are so blinded by your absolutist ideas that you refuse to recognize it. I have no problem with being called a liberal even though my leanings vary depending on the issue. I voted for Reagan in '80 and would do so again given the opportunity. I think the Gipper is rolling in his grave over the present direction of the GOP. He also often started speaking with "My fellow Republicans and those Democrats and Independants who wish to join our efforts". Don't you ever wonder why so few Democrats and Independants now answer that call? I think part of the reason is that nobody likes being called baby killers and America haters by those with whom they have honest disagreements. The faction now running the GOP is to the point that they are now making almost as outrageous comments about fellow Republicans. Think about it.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
We agree on Reagan rolling
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Date:
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5/27/2009 5:59:26 PM
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in his grave although I think we might disagree with why. I think he would be ashamed of the profligate spending that Republicans engaged in over the 8 years of Bush and would agree that they needed to be put in the electoral woodshed until they returned to conservative values. But that is about all. If you read about Reagan (which I have done) you will see that his faith and love of this country informed much of what he believed and did as President. The book about his diary is particularly illuminating as I suspect he went to his knees in prayer more often than Bush.
I do not believe he would have a problem with the policy of preemption or Afghanistan although it is hard to predict his views on Iraq and very well may have opposed that move.
What I find funny is the left excoriated Reagan, called him a B movie actor, a simpleton, naive and dangerous, sending us to the brink of WW3, etc., etc. Now you can't seem to find anyone that didn't vote for him twice. I find that particularly amusing and ironic.
By the way, I am not doubting you voted for him just like I don't doubt that Hound did. I take you at your word. As a conservative, despite all my disagreements with many Republicans (including McCain), I could never vote for a Dem. They simply cannot be trusted with our national defense or the economy.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
By the way
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Date:
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5/27/2009 6:07:13 PM
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Reagan was ardently, 100% pro life despite having been less so when he was a Democrat. While he may have spurned the language of many ardent pro life supporters he most certainly would agree 100% with their goal to eliminate the blight of abortion and was vehemently opposed to the Roe v Wade decision.
Some quotes:
"We cannot survive as a free nation when some men decide that others are not fit to live and should be abandoned to abortion or infanticide. My Administration is dedicated to the preservation of America as a free land, and there is no cause more important for preserving that freedom than affirming the transcendent right to life of all human beings, the right without which no other rights have any meaning."
"Make no mistake, abortion-on-demand is not a right granted by the Constitution. No serious scholar, including one disposed to agree with the Court's result, has argued that the framers of the Constitution intended to create such a right."
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
We agree on Reagan rolling
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Date:
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5/27/2009 8:07:54 PM
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I'm wondering how being deeply religious squares with the astrologer that advised him and Nancy on the most auspicious times for decisions?
You know, I liked Reagan. He was the right man at the right time and he restored America to it's rightful place in the world. He rebuilt our military. But, I'm not willing to lionize him. His 2nd term was a disaster, and from all accounts he slept through most of it as a result of the assassination attempt.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
We agree on Reagan rolling
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Date:
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5/27/2009 9:41:57 PM
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Hound: that was Nancy and I can only recommend to you his diary as it really illuminates his character. And his second term was not a disaster. His second term culminated in the destruction of the USSR.
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