| Name: |
architect
- 
|
|
| Subject: |
Cheney 1, homophobes 0
|
|
Date:
|
6/1/2009 7:26:11 PM
|
"I think freedom means freedom for everyone. I think people ought to be free to enter into any kind of union they wish."....Dick Cheney at National Press Club, June 1, 2009
|
| Name: |
MartiniMan
-
|
|
| Subject: |
Old news, old debate, yawn....
|
|
Date:
|
6/1/2009 7:35:56 PM
|
|
| Name: |
architect
-
|
|
| Subject: |
I knew it would be you
|
|
Date:
|
6/1/2009 10:33:07 PM
|
So, have you shifted any in your position about the "radical homosexual agenda" you were so concerned about a few weeks ago? I can't imagine you disagreeing with one of your heros.
|
| Name: |
MrHodja
-
|
|
| Subject: |
And your point is?
|
|
Date:
|
6/1/2009 11:38:58 PM
|
Other than maybe trying to rile up conservatives, what pray tell is the point you are trying to make? Their freedom the form whatever union they like doesn't mean their personal choice has to be condoned or accepted by others.
I have a special union with my car. It even kisses my @ss every time I drive it.
Nasreddin Hodja
|
| Name: |
lamont
-
|
|
| Subject: |
Key Words...
|
|
Date:
|
6/2/2009 8:12:26 AM
|
"Free to enter any kind of union they want." Fine with me. Doesn't mean it has to be recognized as "normal" by us Homophobes.
You hiding something Archie?
|
| Name: |
Old Crappie
-
|
|
| Subject: |
Cheney 1, homophobes 0
|
|
Date:
|
6/2/2009 9:31:47 AM
|
Lets get to the point here. Close your eyes and think of Bwarney Fwank, his boyfriend, a tub of lube, and let's throw in a couple of gerbils for good measure. Don't tell me this is normal and should be "sanctioned" as a legitimate relationship by any government body. I'll still say it's an abomination and the Left can call me anything it wants. Yes, I know Cheney is right wing but he doesn't call people that disagree with him homophobes.
|
| Name: |
MartiniMan
-
|
|
| Subject: |
I knew it would be you
|
|
Date:
|
6/2/2009 10:23:37 AM
|
Of course not. This is just an old topic about Cheney. You see, I believe in objective truth, even about the issue of homosexuality and marriage. You believe truth is subjective so having a rational discussion about anything with you is a waste of oxygen.
|
| Name: |
Astro
-
|
|
| Subject: |
Cheney 1, homophobes 0
|
|
Date:
|
6/2/2009 12:12:54 PM
|
Well stated. There are many things in life that we do not have to accept. I would never go out of my way to hurt anyone due to my beliefs but regardless of what progressives want to call me I will stay true to my core beliefs. I am tired of hearing people tell me that I have to accept certain lifestyles or political positions. When people do durgs and other things they know are against the law and then tell me I have to forgive them I say that I do not have to forgive bad behavior. In the past peer pressure caused many people to think about their behavior and sometimes avoided that bad behavior. Sorry about the rant.
|
| Name: |
Talullahhound
-
|
|
| Subject: |
Cheney 1, homophobes 0
|
|
Date:
|
6/2/2009 5:22:58 PM
|
I don't think that there is anything wrong with sticking to your core beliefs in your own life. You should never do anything that is not consistent with your beliefs. But the question is really, are you prepared to live and let live? I think that you are saying that you are not willing to "accept" homosexuality as a condition not only for your life, but for anyone else either. Is that correct?
|
| Name: |
Astro
-
|
|
| Subject: |
Cheney 1, homophobes 0
|
|
Date:
|
6/2/2009 7:18:35 PM
|
You are 100% correct. I believe they can live their live any way they wish but I do not have to accept it and never will. I do not have to answer for anything someone else does but I believe I will. Just as everyone in the U.S. is suppose to have free speech I believe you have an absoulte right to believe as you want and that you do not have to accept things that you do not agree with. I do not hate anyone but I am very strong in what I stand for. I find it odd that some people on this forum and in life start calling people names and assigning labels to them simply because they have different opinions. I believe I have stated my opinion.
|
| Name: |
Talullahhound
-
|
|
| Subject: |
Cheney 1, homophobes 0
|
|
Date:
|
6/2/2009 8:33:39 PM
|
"I do not have to answer for anything someone else does but I believe I will. Just as everyone in the U.S. is suppose to have free speech I believe you have an absoulte right to believe as you want and that you do not have to accept things that you do not agree with."
I'm not sure I understand what you are saying here. I know we're talking about homosexuality here, but I find your second sentence intriguing. Are you saying that if the law says that you cannot discriminate based on race, sex, national origin, etc. that if you don't agree with it, you don't have have to accept it and therefore it's okay to discriminate?
|
| Name: |
MrHodja
-
|
|
| Subject: |
Cheney 1, homophobes 0
|
|
Date:
|
6/2/2009 10:06:02 PM
|
Hound, read Astro's first two sentences. That pretty well sums it up, and I agree with Astro.
The problem is that the gay community is trying to force the rest of the nation to accept their lifestyle as "normal". Well, in the eyes of a vast majority of the nation it isn't.
Whatever two consenting adults do in private is their business. If that activity is immoral or contrary to God's wishes, God will deal with it sooner or later.
If God had meant for a man to have sex with a man, He would have provided an orifice meant to make that possible. If God had meant for a woman to have sex with another woman, He would likewise have provided an appendage to make that possible without the use of unnatural devices.
The Bible tells the story of Sodom and Gommorah. Are we turning into a 21st century version and will we see the same fate? Scary thought.
|
| Name: |
Talullahhound
-
|
|
| Subject: |
Cheney 1, homophobes 0
|
|
Date:
|
6/3/2009 12:09:24 AM
|
I agree with you to some extent. I do think the gay community is pushing their agenda well beyond where the majority of people are comfortable going with the marriage issue and to some extent, for me, the adopting children, etc.
Having said that, I've known a surprising number of homosexuals over the years. I've known some that were really out there, and who did not make their sexuality an issue. I do believe that homosexuals are born that way, and therefore, cannot be different. I don't think it is my place to "accept" them or not.
|
| Name: |
MartiniMan
-
|
|
| Subject: |
Cheney 1, homophobes 0
|
|
Date:
|
6/3/2009 1:11:11 PM
|
Hound: I am not sure you are right that "being born gay" accounts for all or even a small portion of homosexuals. This is a topic I have done a lot of research on since my wife's nephew came out of the closet a year ago. There is a lot of very good research that ties homosexuality to numerous factors related to relationships, parenting, psychological trauma (abuse, depression, etc.). I am like a lot of others in that I care much less what they do in private but I resent and rebel against those in the community with a radical agenda and want to force us to accept their lifestyle as normal. I also resent the fact that their entire persona is wrapped up in their sexual orientation. The vast majority of us (97% or so) do not self-identify our entire existence around our heterosexuality. There is something very warped about gays that look at every aspect of their lives and the world around them from the looking glass of their same-sex attraction.
|
| Name: |
Mack
-
|
|
| Subject: |
Hey, ASTRO...
|
|
Date:
|
6/3/2009 8:24:23 PM
|
I am with you. As well as many others not so vocal or with the ability to be heard, except by a VOTE.
Both Political Parties spent millions of dollars last year to get votes from people just like you and me to vote for their agenda. And you know what??? They got them?? Yep, they did.
The result is a huge increase in future taxes, insecurity for us and our children, decay of moral principles, consession to our enemies.
Election 2010 and 2012 should be UGLY!!!
|
| Name: |
Astro
-
|
|
| Subject: |
Hey, ASTRO...
|
|
Date:
|
6/3/2009 10:24:51 PM
|
I fear that voting will no longer make much difference in the direction that the U.S. is going in. When 50% of the people pay no taxes and can vote themselves money out of other peoples pocket then we can expect that socialism will continue. My parents taught me to be honest, moral, and to rely on myself. I hold no one up as an idol such as so many people are doing today whether it be politicians or celebrities. The individual is what has made this country to have the highest living standards in the world. I stopped posting to the above since one member made the leap from my not accepting things to inferring that I was discrimatory if I did. I am not sure that was what they meant but it revealed their thinking. I have said all that I am going to about the previous topics but I hope I can contribute to other topics on this forum. God Bless America.
|
| Name: |
Talullahhound
-
|
|
| Subject: |
Your Statement
|
|
Date:
|
6/4/2009 8:54:27 AM
|
I was merely exploring your statement about your right to to not accept that which you don't agree with. It was your statement not mine. So I made a supposition that if you don't accept homosexuality, that you would likely discriminate against someone who was. I notice you pulled out of the discussion and refused to respond. I never said or implied that you discriminate, but your refusal to explain your position, I think, speaks volumes.
|
| Name: |
Talullahhound
-
|
|
| Subject: |
Hey, ASTRO...
|
|
Date:
|
6/4/2009 8:55:25 AM
|
I think you are dreaming.
|
| Name: |
architect
-
|
|
| Subject: |
Hey, ASTRO...
|
|
Date:
|
6/4/2009 1:00:27 PM
|
There is indeed a fine line between "confident and determined perserverance" and "arrogant and stubborn obstinance" and it is crossed on a predictable schedule on this forum. Having an excellent intellect is wasted if it is smothered by a closed mind.
|
| Name: |
Swimmer27
-
|
|
| Subject: |
Give me a break!!
|
|
Date:
|
6/4/2009 4:26:00 PM
|
You libs are all the same. You think you are intellectually superior to every one else and it is only your fellow lib Kool Aide drinkers that are enlightened. Apparently your definition of 'open minded" is agreeing with you.
You have refered to me as a right wing christian nut job in the past. That is so far from reality as to be laughable. I always just smile and let it go, but I am nothing if not open minded. Yes, I hold core beliefs that I don't see ever changing, but that does'nt mean I won't listen to a well stated argument against anything I believe. I doubt you, or anyone else, can argue anything that would make me change these beliefs. That is not having a closed mind, it is holding true to what one believes.
It has actually been my experience that liberals are the most closed minded of all, becuase just like you, they all think they are so enlightened. It has been my experience that folks that call themselves christians (as 80+% of Americans do) are the most tolerant, holding a live and let live attitude.
|
| Name: |
Talullahhound
-
|
|
| Subject: |
The problem
|
|
Date:
|
6/4/2009 5:58:31 PM
|
I have with the self proclaimed "Christians" is that they want to live a certain way, and that's fine; but they want to insist EVERYONE live their way or else.
I know a lot of fine people who are very religious, but they don't make an issue of it. They live within their beliefs and leave others to follow their own hearts and sets of values. They don't bad mouth others who believe differently, because, I think they understand that each individual will be judged by the eyes of God. Judge not that thee might be judged. When you meet these people, you notice they have a stillness and serenity about them. These are the people who are living examples of a Christian, IMHO.
I don't think that being open minded has anything to do with allowing your mind to be changed from your core beliefs. I think it is being willing to listen and understand the other person's point of view. We're all a product of our own beliefs and experiences. Doesn't mean we can't be respectful of someone else's perspective, nor does it mean we need to drop what we believe and adopt another view.
|
| Name: |
Swimmer27
-
|
|
| Subject: |
I agree
|
|
Date:
|
6/4/2009 8:12:59 PM
|
With all but the first paragraph where you state that christians want to force their views on others. True, some go overboard with attempts to 'convert' others, but I have always found a polite no thank you or not interested is all it takes send them packing. If that does'nt work I start trying to convert them to atheism...lol.
I am not a religous person. I am a spititual person. A christian right wing nut I am not. There is 15% on each end of the spectrum that are very vocal and taint all the others as they paint us with a broad brush. That leaves 70% of us in the middle, where we get no representation out of either party.
|
| Name: |
architect
-
|
|
| Subject: |
I agree too
|
|
Date:
|
6/4/2009 9:13:00 PM
|
The very religious have every right to believe as their heart and mind directs and to try to convert others through witness, prayer and persuasion. Those 70% in the middle can live with that. What I pray the will not put up with is that 15% trying to take over a political party and using it to force their beliefs, standards and lifestyle on the rest through the legislative and/or judicial processes. Now I'm sure MM will start to jump up and down saying writing gay marriage into the law is doing exactly what I argue against. Not so, the granting or expanding a right or priviledge to additional citizens is neither forcing any additional requirements on you nor restricting any rights or priviledges you now enjoy.
|
| Name: |
architect
-
|
|
| Subject: |
Oh, and by the way
|
|
Date:
|
6/4/2009 9:15:54 PM
|
The only intellectually superior poster on this forum is Martini Man, and don't you forget it!
|
| Name: |
MrHodja
-
|
|
| Subject: |
The problem
|
|
Date:
|
6/4/2009 9:49:37 PM
|
"they want to live a certain way, and that's fine; but they want to insist EVERYONE live their way or else. "
Defines the current extreme factions of Islam, except the "or else" is "or die".
|
| Name: |
architect
-
|
|
| Subject: |
The problem
|
|
Date:
|
6/4/2009 10:15:13 PM
|
Not quite MrHodja, They don't insist "everyone live their way or else", The do insist "everyone let them live their way or else". It's the fundy Christians who insist everyone live their way or else.
As I posted before, one of my best friends is openly gay who has been in a long (15 year +) relationship. Both he and his partner are rock ribbed Republicans on almost all issues including most social issues, but they are appalled at the GOP's forgetting the usual mantra of freedom, non-interference and individual responsibility when it comes to gays.
|
| Name: |
MrHodja
-
|
|
| Subject: |
The problem
|
|
Date:
|
6/4/2009 10:54:38 PM
|
Bravo Sierra.
We are talking about Islamic extremists here, not kweers.
Back to the subject. The IEs will gladly take your head if you don't kowtow to their idea about religion. If you don't realize and understand that you really are out of touch with reality. I'd love to see you dumped into the Taliban-controlled area of Afghanistan and/or Pakistan and see if your holier-than-thou pronouncements hold up.
You aren't a sick puppy, just an exceptionally ill-informed one.
Nasreddin Hodja
|
| Name: |
architect
-
|
|
| Subject: |
What are you talking about
|
|
Date:
|
6/4/2009 11:04:01 PM
|
Huh? This thread is, or was, if I'm not mistaken, about Gays/homos/queers/dykes/etc. My response was on that subject, not islamic terrorists.
|
| Name: |
MrHodja
-
|
|
| Subject: |
What are you talking about
|
|
Date:
|
6/4/2009 11:16:29 PM
|
"Defines the current extreme factions of Islam, except the "or else" is "or die".
You threw in the supposed Christian attitude; I threw in the REAL radical Islamist-professed philosophy.
Get a grip with reality, bud (or is it budette?).
Or would you rather just drop your drawers, bend over, and take it like a "man" from some raghead who considers women something to beat and rape?????
So, are you male or female, and do you do same or hetero? I am male and married (41+ years). Never had a homosexual relationship. What about you archy???
|
| Name: |
architect
-
|
|
| Subject: |
What are you talking about
|
|
Date:
|
6/4/2009 11:41:52 PM
|
I'm going to bed. MrHodja i would suggest you do the same. When you wake up in the morning reread the posts following the heading "Cheney 1, homophpbes 0". I think you will find you veered somewhat off course somewhere along the way. Perhaps you weren't commenting about gays but I was and think most of the other comments were too.
|
| Name: |
architect
-
|
|
| Subject: |
What are you talking about
|
|
Date:
|
6/4/2009 11:47:26 PM
|
Forgot. Male married 44 years this month to a female. I have never had or desired to have a homosexual relationship but I know a lot of men and women who have and I call most of them friends and others clients. How about you?
|
| Name: |
Swimmer27
-
|
|
| Subject: |
Finally.....
|
|
Date:
|
6/5/2009 10:49:02 AM
|
....you make a post I can agree with...lol.
I have read enough of his posts to know that he is well above average intelligence and combines that with good ole commom sense.
|
| Name: |
MrHodja
-
|
|
| Subject: |
What are you talking about
|
|
Date:
|
6/5/2009 12:08:31 PM
|
Have known several. Have yet to meet one with whom I have enough in common to consider them a friend.
And I don't need your help deciding when to go to bed.
And by the way, strange that you, the master of changing the discussion to your left-wing crusades, would have trouble with someone else doing the same.
|
| Name: |
architect
-
|
|
| Subject: |
You must be kidding
|
|
Date:
|
6/5/2009 10:56:58 PM
|
I was.
|
| Name: |
architect
-
|
|
| Subject: |
What are you talking about
|
|
Date:
|
6/5/2009 11:08:10 PM
|
I'm sorry MrHodja, but it is you that suddenly changed the direction of this thread without warning, not me. If you go back to the first post you will see that I started the thread by commenting Dick Cheney's support of gay unions, I know it's more common for Cheney to sound more like you in speaking against islamic terrorists and on that subject you and I have a lot of common ground, but that was not the subject of this discussion. Please go back and follow the thread postings from the beginning and I think you will at least agree with me about what subject being discussed if not with my comments about the subject.
|
| Name: |
MrHodja
-
|
|
| Subject: |
What are you talking about
|
|
Date:
|
6/6/2009 12:36:59 AM
|
Was not referring to this thread, but others where you have taken even the most innocuous comment and use it as a springboard for your liberal drivel.
You make me tired. I think I WILL go to bed now.
When I'm in Italy over the next three weeks I'll be sure to toast you with some fine Chianti Classico, eat a Caprese, and maybe even scarf down some linguine ala scoglio or a pizza diavola...just for you, archie.
|
| Name: |
Talullahhound
-
|
|
| Subject: |
Hope you are bringing back
|
|
Date:
|
6/6/2009 9:06:53 AM
|
some great Italian Olive oil, and maybe a case or two of some great Italian wine.
|
| Name: |
architect
-
|
|
| Subject: |
What are you talking about
|
|
Date:
|
6/6/2009 5:48:30 PM
|
Great to hear you are going to Italy! Without a doubt my 2d favorite country. My wife and I spent a month in northen Italy and Tuscany in April/May of 08. If you make it to Tuscany don't miss Cortona and Pienza! Have a great trip and bring us back some Parmaggiano Reggiano (?sp) and Pro Secco.
|
| Name: |
MrHodja
-
|
|
| Subject: |
What are you talking about
|
|
Date:
|
6/6/2009 8:05:29 PM
|
Between you and Hound I ma going to have to get a food and alcohol importer's license...lol.
Been over there about a dozen and a half times since '03 supporting a Foreign Military Sales case - without going into detail, one that directly supports the war on terror. Very satisfying work.
Been many, many places - I think Ercolano (another town covered by Vesuvius' eruption) is my favorite because it is so well preserved that you almost can feel what it was like to live there 2000 years ago. Rather than being covered with lava it was covered in a dense ash that charred, then preserved the contents below.
Those suckers surely were short, though. I am average height and had to duck multiple times to keep from getting a knot on my noggin.
My plane leaves in 18 hours. I reckon I ought to start thinking about packing a bag. Have my granddaughter's championship softball game to go to in 15 minutes, a date with a lovely lady (married 41+ years) for dinner and some killer top-shelf guacamole (Los Cabos, Montgomery), and church and brunch in the AM. Don't tell me to go to bed tonight, because if I do I will miss the plane!
Peace,
Nasreddin Hodja
|
| Name: |
MartiniMan
-
|
|
| Subject: |
Finally we agree on something
|
|
Date:
|
6/8/2009 7:20:47 PM
|
|
| Name: |
MartiniMan
-
|
|
| Subject: |
I agree too
|
|
Date:
|
6/8/2009 7:37:11 PM
|
You are missing the entire gay marriage argument and that is that the term marriage is and has always been defined as the union of one man and one woman. That there are deviations from that definition does not change the definition.
I think maybe you should illuminate us about exactly why gay people want to marry. What exactly are they trying to get from this demand?
No one is saying they can't live in the same household, share expenses, commit sodomy as often as they like in the privacy of their own homes or whatever. They have the same civil rights as married couples so that old saw is gone. The point is they want to be "married" because it confers a sense of legitimacy on a sexual relationship that is in defiance of natural law. And the more radical of them want to destroy traditional marriage and the family, again as a demented way to confer legitimacy to their lifestyle choices. A good many gay people understand this and object to the radical agenda for that very reason.
As far as 70% in the middle, you are dreaming and this is just another example of your fact-free opinionating. In fact a majority of Americans oppose same-sex marriage and even left leaning states like California rejected it overwhelmingly and were recently affirmed by the courts. Further, about 30% of Americans are self proclaimed liberals and 30% are self-proclaimed conservatives. Unless you grew up with the new math that only leaves 40% in the supposed middle. But even of that 40%, poll after poll shows the majority leaning to the right (ie, they have liberal and conservative views on various issues but more of the latter than the former).
Again, I worry about any building you design unless you are just drawing a pretty picture that and engineer actually makes work.
|
| Name: |
Talullahhound
-
|
|
| Subject: |
I agree too
|
|
Date:
|
6/8/2009 8:27:16 PM
|
I think you are right. The gay marriage is a "bridge too far" for most Americans.
I actually have a gay friend that got "married". From what I understand, they want the same legal rights as are afforded to "married", i.e. man/woman -- to include "family" health insurance benefits, and to have their partners considered the same under the law with regard to taxes and beneficiaries. I'm not a lawyer, so I'm not sure what the deal is with those things now. I also know in my friend's case, he and his partner saw it as a "long term commitment" ceremony -- they had already been together 20 years and owned real estate together. I don't have a problem with a "commitment ceremony" either.
You know, on one level I can understand why they are looking for legitimacy. Since more people have come out of the closet and are no longer necessarily circumspect about their living arrangements, I'm sure it just seems like the next logical step. Particulary since they have overcome the issue of adopting and having children.
On another level, I can understand why most Americans are just not wanting to go there. My sister, who has a daughter, feels very strongly about not wanting her daughter to learn that two Mommies or two Daddys is right, and she sends her to a Catholic school.
But, until it becomes more acceptable to the majority of the country, I don't think we'll see it legalized no matter how much press and debate it gets.
|
| Name: |
MartiniMan
-
|
|
| Subject: |
I agree too
|
|
Date:
|
6/8/2009 10:44:35 PM
|
Hound: I get your point but the issue is not really one of "acceptance" per se. Most people I know (even orthodox Catholics like me) accept that people are engaged in the gay lifestyle and we accept their right to engage in whatever behaviors they want behind closed doors. Doesn't make it natural or right but we accept their right to privacy. We also accept civil unions which convey all the legal rights that the gay community supposedly wanted when they pushed that agenda.
What can never be true, even if a majority of Americans "accept" it, is the concept of same-sex "marriage". It is simply not definitionally possible and any push for our society to call same-sex relationships as a marriage is a farce and only degrades and further destroys the most important societal unit, the family. Study after study indicate that children do better in a stable home with their biological father and a mother. Any other structure has been conclusively demonstrated to harm children (obviously not every child in every situtation but statistically speaking it is inarguable that a family consisting of one man married to one woman is the best circumstance).
But the push for homosexual education in government schools (which is why I don't send my kids there) goes way beyond mere acceptance of their lifestyle choices. It is intended to normalize that which is an aberration. If you wish to pursue a lifestyle that is an aberration then have it and many gay people do exactly that and want to live and let live. Fair enough. But the fact that 3% to 4% of our population has same-sex attraction does not make it something we should be forced to accept.
|
| Name: |
Talullahhound
-
|
|
| Subject: |
We're in violent agreement n/t
|
|
Date:
|
6/9/2009 8:10:17 AM
|
|
| Name: |
MartiniMan
-
|
|
| Subject: |
We're in violent agreement n/t
|
|
Date:
|
6/9/2009 9:11:16 AM
|
Hound: I have seen you subject line post a couple of times with the "n/t" at the end. Pardon my ignorance but what does that mean?
|
| Name: |
Talullahhound
-
|
|
| Subject: |
No Text (n/t)
|
|
Date:
|
6/9/2009 4:52:50 PM
|
|
|
New Post
Search
Off-Topic Forum
Reply
»
Texas Lakes
»
North Fork Buffalo Creek Reservoir
Login
|
Home
