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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
Question for Archie
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Date:
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7/5/2009 7:35:02 PM
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Again I ask ... what has Obama done right so far in your eyes. The last time you attempted to post a response, all you said was all the things you do not agree with. But what has he done right.
Few questions:
1. what was unemployment when Obama was elected and what is it today?
2. Where was the stock market when Obama was elected and what is it today?
3. What was the national debt when Obama was elected and what is it today.
These are 3 easy ones. If you have some that you want to share that show what a great job he is doing ... by all means share.
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| Name: |
Astro
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| Subject: |
Additional Question
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Date:
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7/5/2009 8:23:41 PM
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You failed to ask is there anything that is not Bush's fault.
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
you are right ...
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Date:
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7/5/2009 8:29:00 PM
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thanks ... I think in 4 years they will still be blaming Bush. They just can not handle how successful Bush was with the economy and foreign policy.
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| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
answers
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Date:
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7/6/2009 9:24:58 AM
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(1) up (a lot, would likely be up more if McCain/Space cadet had won)
(2) Down (a little since Jan 20, who knows, other than you, what it would be if McCain/Space cadet had won)
(3) up (a lot, would have been up a lot, though not as much,if McCain/Space cadet had won, but see(1) above)
(4) None of it is the direct fault of Bush or any other person or group political or other, each of us probably bear a tiny portion of the blame due to our profligacy (a MM word) over the past decade or so. Barney Frank, Phil Gramm and any number of Wall Street high flyers certainly didn't help. I do remind you that the TARP program which has been much railed against on this forum was a program authored by a Mr. Bush, his Sect'y of treasury and his appointee to the chairmanship of the Fed.
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You are dreaming. The president and administration owns the economy no more than 60 days after taking office and it has been over 6 months and things are still getting worse, even after spending $787 billion and passing the biggest budget with prosed tax increases on EVERY american.
Bush took over a severe recession from Clinton when the tech bubble burst after al gore invented the internet. Then 9/11 ... yet Bush and the republicans did the right things to get people back to work and the economy moving.
He incented small businesses that actually create most of the jobs in this country and cut taxes to allow "people" to spend more money ... not government.
But I forgot, you do not have a mind of your own so you need and want government to think for you and decide how to spend your money. Personally I like to keep more of what I make and decide where to spend or invest it.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
answers
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Date:
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7/6/2009 2:37:53 PM
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Archie: I won't stipulate your speculation about how things would have been worse in all three areas had McCain/Palin won because it is silly and pointless to argue about something that none of us would ever know because it didn't happen. We can only see what has happened under Obama/Biden.
I do wonder about your last point. It seems to me that it is both common knowledge and widely accepted that the current financial crisis was a result of the excesses caused by government intervention in the free markets (Fannie/Freddie/CRA, etc.). These drove the housing market to artificially high levels (the bubble) that burst when the economy slowed and the subprime borrowers saw there was no escape and began to default. What about that is not clear to you? You can argue all day long as to whether one or both parties share the blame but not about the cause.
As for all of us sharing in the excessive expenditures I take exception to that claim. Nothing could be further from the truth. TARP has never been the issue for me and other conservatives even though many of us preferred to allow the free markets to correct things, we also realized the risk in a totally lassez faire approach. What is an issue is the alleged stimulus plan that those of us who delved into it pointed out was not stimulative and would not work. We were right and they were wrong. Remember, the Messiah himself said we needed this bill to keep unemployment from going over 8%. He lied and jobs died.
What really happened was they used a crisis to implement a slew of big government spending that ballooned the deficit (quadruple anything Bush ever dreamed up that liberals were screeching about for the last 4 or 5 years). It was never about stimulus for them or they would have taken a totally different tact. What we now have learned is they didn't really care about the deficit, they just didn't like what Bush spent his borrowed money on. But the point is they are going to want to bring us "son of stimulus" and it will just be another pork-laden, big government spending program that will not stimulate and will only further increase the debt. I hope that is not the case but Obama continues to outsource the writing of these bills to uber-liberals like Pelosi, Reid, Frank and other safe liberal Democrats that will pay no price for their profligacy with our money (or more to the point, our children and grandchildren's money). Socialist European governments are telling us we are nuts as they go in the other direction by cutting taxes.
We are repeating all the same mistakes of the Great Depression. My only hope is we don't need a WW3 to save the Messiah's legacy like we did with FDR and WW2.
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