| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
Gangster Government
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Date:
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7/9/2009 10:03:43 PM
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You have to watch this. It is spot on.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thR-lVuztIY&feature=related
URL: Gangster Government
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Gangster Government
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Date:
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7/9/2009 10:32:40 PM
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Nah. It's whining by a Republican and I suspect the film was made for the folks back home. There was probably no one in the room when she made the speech. They do that -- you knew that, didn't you?
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
Gangster Government
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Date:
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7/9/2009 10:42:33 PM
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Yes, I knew that. :)
But her points are still valid about connections and people just having their business taken away. I know someone that lost a dealership and it was just as she said. It was a successful and profitable business, now it is worthless and has a $3.5 million building that he will also take a bath on trying to sell.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Gangster Government
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Date:
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7/9/2009 10:47:42 PM
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and I can appreciate that. I don't know how GM decided which ones to keep and which ones to terminate. And I'm sure some members of Congress pulled some strings for some, and that is very, very wrong.
But, you know I'm in favor of term limits. :-)
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Actually
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Date:
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7/9/2009 10:48:33 PM
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I was hoping for a new kind of rap... gansta government.
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
Actually
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Date:
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7/9/2009 10:51:38 PM
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some times you crack me up. Of course I am enjoying some wine so maybe it was not that funny. :)
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| Name: |
Yankee06
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| Subject: |
Actually not funny
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Date:
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7/10/2009 1:09:20 AM
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Thanks for the video on ganster government. I had heard about it but hadn't seen it.
-There is nothing funny about this process. I've listened to the car companies provide their rationale for cutting so many dealerships, and it sounded pretty poor to me. Dealerships cost them very little money. Dealers are a pretty much pay-as-you-go operation. They buy the cars from GM, etc., then they sell them. GM pays for national advertising and the dealers pay for local advertising. In some cases, GM will help the dealers for short periods for various reasons.
-The real problem here is the "new" decision making process that will go on in these businesses. The decision making process will not be financial, it will be political. We can see that already by GM's decision to put its new small car plant in Michigan.
-I spent a good part of 40 years studying the old Soviet Union. The reason its economy was in such a shambles was that so many "economic" decisions were made by government and party officials for "political" reasons. IF the money is coming from Washington, then company leaders will have to listen to Washington "guidance." If they don't, they'll be out. Already, government has appointed a car czar, and his office has representatives in GM providing them guidance on what is and is not acceptable to Washington. Dark thinkers might see this as similar to the USSR's old political commissar system. ...Now I believe that if we are putting $60 billion into GM, then we have the right to tell themwhat to do, but do we have the knowledge to do so?
-Personally, I think we should have let Chrysler fail in 1978. Had we, GM might have learned a lesson and become a more competitive company
-Next question: how does Ford survive. Can Ford compete with GM, if GM is going to receive a steady supply of money from DC?
-This issue of economic decision making for political reasons provides the political party in power with...well,...with a lot of power. Worse, the companies and people depending on the government money have a vested interest in seeing that the party that provides them the money STAYS in power. SO larger and larger numbers vote for this party. This process ends with a one party system.
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
Actually not funny
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Date:
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7/10/2009 7:50:24 AM
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My next American car will be a Ford product. I have a '99 Expedition with 152,000 miles on it and there is essentially nothing wrong with it (knock on wood). I have had very little in the way of maintenance costs.
I recently purchased a Nissan Versa as my knock-about-town car (jury is still out on that one), yet would have strongly considered the little Ford (Focus?) - but I wanted a hatchback and they stopped producing hatchbacks the year before.
All that being said, it is still kind of hard to kill a Toyota......
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
Actually not funny
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Date:
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7/10/2009 7:59:41 AM
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Mine will we anything but a "government Motors" vehicle. I just saw that as they emerge from bankruptcy (which is a joke when owned almost 80% by the feds) their market share is below 19% now and 67% of their sales are the Chevolet brand.
I am sure many people will refuse to buy a GM vehicle, each with their own reason.
Our company used to have 100% of our fleet cars as GM, we have now switched to Ford.
As I point that out, Ford stock may be a good buy at these levels.
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| Name: |
lamont
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| Subject: |
And The Beat Goes On....
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Date:
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7/10/2009 8:21:09 AM
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Sickening really. I wonder when the masses will wake up and realize what is happening to this "once great" nation.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Gangster Government
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Date:
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7/10/2009 8:38:15 AM
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I confess I don't know much about how the GM/Dealer relationship works and what would be the relative advantages of having less dealerships would be. Maybe Catboat can give us some insight about that.
I can't really think of a political reason that the government would want to put dealerships out of business. I CAN understand why members of Congress would intervene and try to get dealerships reinstated.
Sometime this year, I'm going to buy an SUV. And I certainly will be looking at Ford. I'm reluctant to look at a GM product.
There is an article this morning that GM will likely be making a quick exit out of bankruptsy. Announcement supposedly coming this morning.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
CATBOAT
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Date:
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7/10/2009 8:40:05 AM
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Can you give us your insight into the GM/dealer relationship and what are your thoughts about why GM would want to reduce the number of dealers?
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| Name: |
CAT BOAT
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| Subject: |
CATBOAT
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Date:
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7/10/2009 9:34:08 AM
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I really don't have a concrete answer, but will offer my opinion. Most GM dealerships that I know got termination letters had poor sales penetration numbers! Dealerships have assigned APR's (area of primary responsibility). GM expects vehicle registration numbers at certain levels in a particular APR, and the dealer responsible for that APR is responsible for hitting those numbers. Some times dealers register more units in someone elses APR than the dealership responsible for that particular APR. We call that "Pumping in" to someone elses market. I think GM is looking at it kinda like this.>>> Several years ago, I worked at a local Montgomery CBS tv. station, WCOV. It was a station and operated on a UHF band (remember, you had to turn one knob to U and the other to station number)? Coverage area was just enough to cover Metro Montgomery. You had to point the antenna just right. Well, the CBS station in Selma Channel 8, a VHF station was up and coming and decided to build this tall tower, and there coverage covered there on town, and ours and a bunch of others also! Well, CBS did not really need the stations that fell inside this new large area created by WAKA, so they terminated WCOV. WCOV became independant, and later FOX network was created and went to most of the independants rescue. I know that is a stupid way to get my view across, but I really don't understand some of the decisions. This is only my opinion! I do believe that GM is now building some of the best cars available. My .02 worth. As I understand it anyway.
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| Name: |
CAT BOAT
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| Subject: |
GM
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Date:
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7/10/2009 9:38:04 AM
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I believe GM comes out of Bankruptcy today anyway. So, yall get your tails down here and by some trucks and cars. My Baby needs some new shoes.
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| Name: |
rude evin
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| Subject: |
GM
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Date:
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7/10/2009 10:07:27 AM
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You need to start selling Fords........... :-/
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| Name: |
CAT BOAT
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| Subject: |
GM
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Date:
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7/10/2009 10:14:55 AM
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Then I could'nt get my boat up the ramp.
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| Name: |
GoneFishin
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| Subject: |
Why Dealers Terminated
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Date:
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7/10/2009 12:14:05 PM
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"This surplus of dealerships hurt the manufacturers in several ways. First, although the dealerships are owned independently, they receive financial support from GM and Chrysler through a variety of mechanisms, ranging from low-cost financing for vehicles in inventory to local advertising assistance. GM estimates that it will save some $2 million in such costs for each dealer closed.
Second, and perhaps even more significantly, a surplus of franchises means dealers for the same manufacturer end up competing among themselves, resulting in lower returns across the board. With less revenue, not only do dealers need more assistance from the manufacturer, but they find it harder to maintain service and quality levels."
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| Name: |
CAT BOAT
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| Subject: |
Why Dealers Terminated
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Date:
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7/10/2009 2:00:33 PM
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What he said.... Well put.
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| Name: |
rude evin
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| Subject: |
GM
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Date:
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7/10/2009 3:04:38 PM
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LMAO............
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| Name: |
Mack
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| Subject: |
Cat?
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Date:
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7/10/2009 4:14:28 PM
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that boat/ramp remark is very inviting for further comment
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| Name: |
lotowner
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| Subject: |
Gangster Government
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Date:
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7/10/2009 4:18:06 PM
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How anyone can view this speech and declare it as "whining" is unreal. Citizens of this country who care about individual freedom and want minimum interference from government need to listen up.
I know of a dealership in Hartselle, Abercrombie Chevrolet, the oldest Chevrolet dealership in Alabama, that was terminated by GM. If we think that this can't happen to us, we have our head in the sand. This country is undergoing dramatic change under the current administration.
Stay tuned for the damage from Cap and Trade legislation. Gore's company that manges carbon footprints will be very wealthy. The business environment if this legislation passes will be intolerable. I predict massive unemployment levels.
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| Name: |
Astro
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| Subject: |
Gangster Government
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Date:
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7/10/2009 4:34:03 PM
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I see that some of you did not get the liberal memo. When Republicans speak it is whining and when Democrats speak it is a message from above.
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| Name: |
CAT BOAT
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| Subject: |
Mack....
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Date:
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7/10/2009 9:12:42 PM
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Not sure of what you are talkin' about. But,,,, bring yo' chain when you come... ;)
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| Name: |
Yankee06
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| Subject: |
GM -GoneFishin's comments
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Date:
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7/10/2009 9:48:56 PM
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-Good points GoneFishin made above about why GM and Chrysler cut so many dealers. GF's points were similar to what I heard on the TV hearings. But several things still bother me and I think most people should be asking themselves if they should be bothered also. Or maybe I'm just a little slow on understanding all this. However, ...
-First: I heard the GM guys say they could save several miliion per dealer dropped, up to about $1 or $1.5 billioin saved per year. That would seem to me that it would be done by dropping unprofitatble dealers. But I don't understand why they would drop profitable dealers. How would dropping profitable dealers help GM unless GM management was so stupid that their contracts were better for the dealers than GM. In that case, renegotiate them. In any case, GM should fire its contract officers.
-Second; low financing for cars cost them? That's the name of the game. GMAC had their own financing and was the most profitable arm of GM, and that is why GM sold it off, in order to make money.
-Third: dealers had lots of money invested in their cars and their facilities. I think GM have some responsibility for this. I believe that some of the bailout money go to helping ameliorate this dealer debt. (personally of course, I think GM should have been allowed to fail and no bailout money be provided to anybody. ---but if some are getting it, then maybe othe people have a claim, maybe an even more rightful one.)
-Forurth: Dealers were competing with each other? This is as it is suppose to be. If a dealer can't compete then one will go out of business. BUt if they are competting and staying in business, then why force one to close? IF people aren't happy with a dealer, they won't buy their cars and the place will close. GM has let many places close over the years when profits got too low.
-I asked my local dealer about all this, and he couldn't give me any real good answers. he was just glad he wasn't on the list.
-But worst of all, is why is a senator meddling in this as a broker. ANd if GM made a decision to close a dealer on a "financial " basis, then why is it right for GM to change it on a "political" basis. This suggests that their original rationale for closing all the other dealers was probably wrong. This should be of great concern to the American people. When a political party whether dem or repub, can force companies to make decisions for political vs economic reasons, then we are on that proverbial slippery slope, this time to full socialism and thus national mediocrity. The historry of the 20th century suggests that the negative effects of socialism takes about two generations, or 40 years, to shhow their full impact on a culture.
-All this makes me very concerned about the kind of America my grand children will inherit.
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| Name: |
cobra
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| Subject: |
CATBOAT
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Date:
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7/11/2009 8:04:54 AM
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I do not think anyone could answer that question. I know a few dealers that should be closed. I was looking for a vehicle last month and went to a local dealer. I walked around the car for 20 minutes and no one ever came and asked could I help you. When a salesman finally did come out I still could not get much info. He kept going back in the building when I would make him an offer. I made a very fair offer for the car and off he goes again. He told me flat out no way and left. The price I offered him was $800 above Kelly's blue book. What kind of business is this ? I will never, I say never go to that dealership again. The car is still sitting on the lot. This was a used car by the way. I started to write a letter but decided the heck with it. I have told this to several people and they tell me got the same treatment. I assume you have to belong to a county club and look rich before this dealer will take time to wait on you. cobra
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| Name: |
CAT BOAT
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| Subject: |
CATBOAT
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Date:
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7/11/2009 9:47:21 AM
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No, you don't have to belong to a country club. LOL. Long story short... No one ever goes to college to become an autombile sales person. BUT, every once in awhile, you run across someone that really enjoys the interaction, and really has your best interest in mind. PLEASE call me! I will help you anyway possible. Even if you are buying somewhere else. I for one really enjoy what I do. Both for Riverside and Cathouse.
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| Name: |
CAT BOAT
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| Subject: |
CATBOAT
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Date:
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7/11/2009 10:31:28 AM
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Repeat business and personal recommendations are the key to success.
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| Name: |
muddauber
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| Subject: |
CATBOAT
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Date:
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7/12/2009 8:48:07 AM
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That's the truest axiom of business there is. All the glitz, advertising etc cannot outperform good word of mouth and repeat customers over the long haul.
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| Name: |
muddauber
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| Subject: |
Why Dealers Terminated
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Date:
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7/12/2009 9:06:30 AM
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When I first read that, I said no way. 2 mil per dealership? Quick search yielded 440 new cars sold per dealer in '08. That's ~4.5k per car. Then I think. But, but, how is there a savings? Ads are gonna cost the same, if ads are even part of that. Discounts to dealers? Well, a car sold here vs same car sold there is still the same. No savings there. Manu is not paying for the building, power etc. Maybe I stupid, but I just don't see it. The only thing I see is by cutting dealerships and assuming keeping same sales, those dealers remaining ought to make more profit.
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| Name: |
cobra
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| Subject: |
CATBOAT
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Date:
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7/12/2009 5:15:46 PM
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I totally agree. I will probably contact you on a vehicle. Thanks, Cobra
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| Name: |
rude evin
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| Subject: |
Gangsta Govt........
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Date:
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7/13/2009 9:38:26 AM
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I don't know nothing about nothing in the car business, but, translating what is going on elsewhere in our society and economy, and remembering the addage of 'taking advantage of a good crisis'...........my guess would be that the net effect of the reductions of dealerships now will result in a dramatic change in the new owner profile of the new dealerships when the economy turns around and sales pick up.
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