| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
Speaking of polls
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Date:
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8/29/2009 4:05:01 PM
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When looking at a poll it is wise to review the internals rather than to simply read abd pass on. The latest set of polling of 2400 people (moe 2%) by Research 2000 but I looked at has Obama at 55% favorable (down from 58% last week and 60% 2 weeks ago). I'm sure this news is encouraging for most of our forum posters. When you go to the internals you might not be so pleased. You will find some stark regional differences: While overall Obama is @55%, in the south he is only 27% but in the rest of the country he is at a still very impressive 68% on average (regional variences from 81% in the NE to 60% in the west)
Other info:
Democrats in congress 40% overall
24% in the south
47% outside the south
Republicans in congress 14% overall
28% in the south
8% outside the south
Democratic party 43% overall
22% in the south
53% outside the south
Republican party 20% overall
46% in the south
13% outside the south
I came across this poll on Pollster.com. It was done by a respected and independant polling firm for the liberal web site Daily Kos so I'm sure that makes it automatically suspect to most of my fellow posters, but if you do as I did and pull up some of their pre election national and state polls you will find their accuracy was well above the norm. Now, I'm not sure what to read into this polling info other than to say it confirms a drop in Obama's stature and that it even more strongly confirms that the GOP is quickly becoming a mostly regional party. Are you guys ready to become the new "Whigs"?
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| Name: |
alahusker
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| Subject: |
Short response, watching
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Date:
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8/29/2009 5:30:22 PM
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news coverage of Senator Kennedy's upcoming interminate at
Arlington. PFC (never promoted) Edward M. Kennedy with 2 distinguished years of service..
Archie's post re polls??? He is right as usual.. 9 trillion debt over the next decade, double digit unemployment, socialized medicine, government control of auto and banking industries are things we need celebrate. Plus, we can applaud Eric Holder's prosecution of those evil CIA agents.. All of this change in only 9 months. No wonder our President's polls are so remarkable..
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| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
Uhh......
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Date:
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8/29/2009 8:53:30 PM
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Any comments on the poll?
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| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
Uhh......BTW
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Date:
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8/29/2009 8:57:19 PM
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Teddy Kennedy had two years of active military service. Is that bad? How many years did Dick Cheney, Newt Gingrich, Rush Limbaugh, Mitch McConnell, Eric Cantor, Mark Sanford, Michael Steele etc serve?
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| Name: |
Astro
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| Subject: |
You forgot
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Date:
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8/29/2009 9:09:58 PM
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Obama. I served four years and that does not make me any better or worse than any other individual. So what does it matter or what has it to do with the price of apples?
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| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
I'm still waiting
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Date:
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8/29/2009 9:21:21 PM
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for someone to make an intellegent comment on the subject of my original post rather than the typical Ofuscation (a MM word meaning "intentional confusion") typicall employed by most of you. (see above posts)
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| Name: |
realfast64
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| Subject: |
I'm still waiting
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Date:
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8/29/2009 9:24:55 PM
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Maybe everyone but i has learned arguing with you is something like a pig and mudd.
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| Name: |
alahusker
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| Subject: |
OK, I apologize
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Date:
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8/29/2009 10:16:13 PM
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Senator Kennedy did serve 2 years in the Army, after being kicked out of Harvard for cheating.. And he's going to be laid to rest with the Nation's finest in Arlington, with military honors.. OK, I accept it..
He was a power house in Washington, and believed what he believed. I just did not agree with his principles nor can forget about the incident in 1969.. My bad...
Your point on Presidential polls?? Are they going up, or down??
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| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
My point is
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Date:
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8/29/2009 10:31:35 PM
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does anyone have any opinion or concern regarding the very pronounced difference in polling results between the south and the other three regions on the nation? Does it give credence to the belief among some prognosticators that the Republican Party is being marginalized as a souther regional party? I'm not arguing with any one, just asking for input.
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| Name: |
Yankee06
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| Subject: |
Polls-comments
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Date:
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8/30/2009 1:58:23 AM
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OK Archy, I'll bite.
-Is teh repub party being marginalized as a southern regional party? Of course it is. This first hit everyone on the night of the election when the final map depiction of which states went blue and which went red. It looked like a school map of the sides in teh civil war. Some commentators even went so far as to say that it wasn't an election issues map, it was a racial issues map. We're still stuck with that thought on MSNBC, --i.e., as Mathews constantly states, if you're against Obama it's because you can't accept a blackman as president. So it's worse than being though of as a regonal party because of issue differences; the danger is that the repubs will be thought of as a regional party based on racial issues.
-I'm not a big poll guy unless i know the questions that were asked and how it was conducted. But let's say that Archy's poll was a good one, --then I would have to say that Republicans have to worry about being seen as a regional party.
-IN teh last election, the miserable performance of teh republicans in congress in the previous 4 years had a lot to do with the election results, but the most important impact was the economic freefall in the last three-six months before the election. Based on those two circumstances I can understand how the repubs were beaten so badly.
-What I can't understand is this poll's results showing that Obama has not fallen as much as I would have thought in the other regions. Are people not aware of what he is doing to teh economy, to foreign policy, to the nation's cultural fabric? --or maybe I'm just out of tune with how the rest of teh country views on present national ideas on what makes a strong American economy, American foreign policy, American culture, and what Obama is doing to them. They must approve, but I can't figure out why.
-In almost every discussion I have with my liberal friends, they have no commands of the facts on any issue; not on the health care bill, not on the fiscal takeovers/bailouts, not on the automotive takeovers/bailout, not on the amount of debt,. There answer is always something like, --well these are tough times caused by George Bush and they require tough meaaures by Obama. That's it for rationale. It's very hard to discuss issues with such people. They make Archy look like a genius by comparison.
-If teh repubs want to come back, they have to come up with a plan that does more than wait for teh swing vote to become disenchanted with Obama. Archy's poll would indicate that's not going to happen. The repubs have to come up with better issues arguments or not be marginalised to God, gays, and gun issues. I don't see this happening yet.
-As an independent I wish we had stronger parties. But because we're not party-centrist thinkers (i.e., the party platform is always right), we end up in smaller groups and are thus marginalized in national elections.
-At the moment, there are very few national leaders available for teh repub party in 2012. The ones that were out there have proved ineffectual or morally compromised (and that's hard to do in this age). Mitt Romney is the only one presently on the scene that has a chance, and that's a slim one at best.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
My point is
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Date:
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8/30/2009 1:47:46 PM
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I think the South is just far more conservative than the rest of the country. I think that is less religious and cultural diversity, on the whole, in the South than most other places.
Yankee makes a good point -- unless you know who is being polled and how the questions are worded it's hard to take poll results as more than "interesting". I think they can show trends within polling groups, but I never put any real stock in the numbers.
I've always found it interesting that politicians put so much stock in the numbers.
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
My point is
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Date:
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8/30/2009 2:47:29 PM
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Migtht well be to influence undecided voter to vote for them. We Americans like to be on the winning side, and if it looks like candidate X is going to win, some will (either explicitly or subconsciously) go with the side they think will win.
Maybe a cockamamy theory, but hey, the weather doesn't lend itself to outside activity today....
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| Name: |
alahusker
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| Subject: |
Valid theory, Mullah..
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Date:
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8/30/2009 3:52:07 PM
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If you are an independent and don't have strong convictions for or against, you go to the polls.. then you can say "I told you so, that's what everyone thinks...." Unfortunately, the GOP has been guilty of this for the years when they/we could have made a difference and did not.. We conservatives now sadly say, "I told you so.." I truely "Hope for Change" on this mindset... for the sake of my grandkids..
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| Name: |
Yankee06
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| Subject: |
Valid theory, Mullah..
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Date:
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8/30/2009 5:32:31 PM
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Ala,
-Please stop saying that independents don't have strong convictions. I would contend that across the board that independents are stronger in their beliefs than dems or pubs. Why? Because we actually think about each issue, determine how it fits into our individual philosophies, then decide how we will support it. This is a much more thoghtful approach than party centrists who support everything the party platorm supports no matter if this support is contradictory, illogical, etc.
-I find it hard to believe that if you're a democrat you can't be pro-gun, or anti-abortion, or pro-defense, etc. I find it equally hard to understand that if you're a republican you can't be anti-assault weapon, pro choice, anti-war. To me teh core party beliefs should deal with central vs decentralized government, low vs high taxes, capitalist vs socialist economy. Other issues such as guns, abortion, religion, feminism, immigration should cut across both parties.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Going down
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Date:
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8/30/2009 6:14:31 PM
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like all the rest.
Archie, this is most likely a poll of respondents to a telephone call during the day and not of likely voters. I have no doubt he has high approvals of people sitting at home during a work week.....they are waiting for what's due them from the guvment after they take it from the rich at a point of a gun.....
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| Name: |
JustAGuy
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| Subject: |
Going down
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Date:
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8/30/2009 7:05:16 PM
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Not one of your better posts MM ...
Architect didn't give the source of his poll (and I wish he had) ... so you have no way of knowing what time of day it was taken or whether it was likely voters or not. You imply it is non-working welfare recipients .... with nothing to back up that supposition. Again ... not one of your better posts.
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| Name: |
alahusker
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| Subject: |
Yankee06
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Date:
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8/30/2009 7:48:02 PM
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| Name: |
alahusker
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| Subject: |
Yankee06
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Date:
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8/30/2009 8:01:16 PM
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I happen to agree with everything in your post.. Mea culpa.. Should not have come across as a criticism of independents, cause I don't agree with the far right on some stuff, but generally support conservative principles..
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| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
Indeed
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Date:
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8/30/2009 11:12:33 PM
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Very poor post MM. JaG the info is from pollster.com: Polling of 2400 adults by telephone between 8/24 and 8/27. it has a margin of error of 2%. Now MM I can read between the lines when you talk about people being home during the day waiting for their "guvment" checks. I believe you are referring to "dem black folks". Well in that case seems Obama would be riding highest in the states of the old Confederacy (17% t0 40% black) rather than vice-versa.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
A perfect response
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Date:
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8/31/2009 10:39:15 AM
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from you Archie and it proves my point exactly. Your veiled reference to racism only proves that you, like most liberals, are the ones fixated on race. I referred to people at home waiting for their checks and you implied I meant black people. Apparently you didn't know that more white people (numerically) are sitting at home waiting for their checks than blacks. Its all about race with you liberals. I could frankly care less the color of a person's skin. I am more interested in the content of their character. Your bizarre fixation with race is frankly a bit disturbing. Perhaps you are a closet racist and project yourself on others. I would be very worried if I were and maybe you should consider sensitivity training or some therapy.
And JAG, re-read my post. I said "MOST LIKELY" and in fact Archie's response that it was of 2,400 adults which shows that I was right. It did not say "likely voters" and any reputable pollster will tell you whether they are polling anyone with a heartbeat that is home and answers the phone or someone likely to vote. Using likely voters is one reason pollsters like Rasmussen and Zogby are much more accurate than others.
I don't care about what adults that don't vote think because they don't vote. By my main point is he is dropping in the polls, in every poll, even the ones that poll anyone they can get. No poll is perfect but the trends are unmistakable which only proves that more and more Americans are more informed than the Obama sycophants on this forum that apparently can't see what it obvious about this guy and his statist policies.
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| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
MM pray tell me please
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Date:
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8/31/2009 6:20:09 PM
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what I am expected to think when you make reference to people sitting at home waiting for their "guvment" check? If you had said "goverment" check I would have suspected it might be a uncomplimentary racial reference but by using "guvment" makes it a lead pipe certainty. You know I may not be a MENSA member like you but having grown up in the south I recognize sly racial code words when I hear them. I didn't just fall off a turnip truck.
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
Question
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Date:
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8/31/2009 7:41:05 PM
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Archie, where did you grow up? Under what circumstances? Did you ever spend time with common southern white people?
If you had, you, like I, would have attributed "guvment" to a "commoner"s way of talking -- with no racial overtones whatsovever.
Its a southern thing, not a black thing.
Suspicion doubly confirmed.
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| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
Question
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Date:
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8/31/2009 10:29:37 PM
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Mr H. I grew up in the Blue Ridge foothills of North Georgia. We did not have that many black people in the town where I grew up but we had a lot of racist white folks who were otherwisw good hard working blue collar types (textiles, logging, hard-scrabble farms) and their speech did not lend itself to dropping R's but rather to add emphasis to the "R". The people I grew up around would have talked about the state "guverrment" in "Adlanner". They would say "guvment" only to mock the blacks that they held in contempt for their black skin and held down because they needed someone to be lower on the economic ladder than they were.
Now I don't know for sure what MM had in mind, but I think I know what he had in his heart. If i'm wrong I'm sorry, but he is going to have to go a long way to demonstrate that I am wrong.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Guvment = black?!?!?
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Date:
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9/1/2009 9:14:47 AM
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Archie: You really do have a race fixation and this confirms it for me. While I grew up in the north I always attributed the term guvment to the poor and rednecks, not blacks. You are really prejudiced if you see that term as being a black colloquial. You have really proved my my point with your response.
This is really interesting.....
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
You don't know my heart
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Date:
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9/1/2009 9:19:43 AM
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Archie, you are sadly mistaken if you think you know my heart. You are the one who appears to be a racist and if you had an ounce of decency you would stop projecting your background growing up in North Georgia on me. But then again, decency is not something I would expect from a liberal so you can do whatever you want.
You know my heart.....and you call me arrogant....
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Thank you!
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Date:
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9/1/2009 4:46:24 PM
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He is obsessed with race like most liberals and can't understand that most conservatives just don't care about the color of a person's skin. His fixation is indeed double confirmation about my suspicion's and his subsequent posts bolster my conclusion. Apparently he projects his North Georgia racist upbringing on everyone else.
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| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
But then again
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Date:
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9/1/2009 9:30:19 PM
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| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
But then again
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Date:
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9/1/2009 9:30:19 PM
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| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
But then again
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Date:
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9/1/2009 9:32:40 PM
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MM in the three posts above you go from informing me that I cannot know what's in your heart to informing everyone what is in mine. You are such a smart guy.
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| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
Another example
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Date:
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9/1/2009 9:41:34 PM
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During the fall campaign Rep. Lynn Westmorland, a very conservative GA congressman, made a statement that Barack Obama came across to him as being "uppity". He recieved immediate criticism from across the board. Now Mr. Westmorland grew up in the south, as did I and I suspect you did, during the civil rights era, yet he claimed he had never heard the term "uppity" used with a racial tilt. Well Mr. H if you believe that I would love to show you my Gulf front property in Kansas.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Wrong once again
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Date:
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9/2/2009 8:50:18 AM
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I don't know what's in your heart but I can respond to what you post. You are obsessed with race and you make veiled and not so veiled references to our being racists on a regular basis. It's what is on your lips (via your fingers on the keyboard) that led me to posit you are a closet racist and project your deep seated feelings onto others with whom you disagree.
As MrHodja rightly pointed out, you proved my point when you discussed your background in North Georgia hanging around with redneck racists. Well I am not them and never have been and never will. If my supposition is wrong then I suggest you get off the "anyone that opposes Obama is a racist" kick.
I know this is hard for you to comprehend, which is why I have to repeat myself, we don't care the color of his skin. It is the content of his character, his background and his statist views that we oppose. I can assure you I opposed the every single white male Democrat politician I could and have supported several conservative black politicians or conservative female politicians as long as they will support my beliefs in their governance.
For crying out loud Archie, let's have an honest debate and not devolve into calling people racists because they have legitimate disagreements on political issues.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Another example
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Date:
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9/2/2009 10:57:37 AM
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I agree that the use of uppity has a specific racial overtone and I would join those in condemning him for saying it. I would have said something along the lines that Obama is an arrogant, elitist Ivy-league snob that thinks he knows what is best for me and my family more than I do. That same moniker applies to Gore, Kerry and all those other white liberal elitists that I have opposed.
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
Another example
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Date:
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9/2/2009 12:10:20 PM
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I'm sorry....I don't believe you ever asked me if I thought the term "uppity" had racial overtones.
Instead you attack with a very wrong assumption.
Sad, sad.
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| Name: |
alahusker
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| Subject: |
"Uppity?"
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Date:
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9/2/2009 7:05:47 PM
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I think that Nancy Pelosi, Gerald Nagler ane Barney Frank are uppity.. I would substitue 'uppity' with 'arrogance'.. I don't think that Condelezza Rice, Dr Walter Williams, Colen Powell or Bill Crosby are uppity, even little bit.. What am I missing?? But recall, I was born and raised in the midwest and have only had 20 years of living in Alabama to learn how to become a redneck racist.. Guess I'm a slow learner..
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| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
Last comment
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Date:
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9/2/2009 8:50:52 PM
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MM I showed a verbatim copy of your words of Aug 30..6:14:31 by 6 people today with no indication of who said it or in what context other than it was in response to a poll. I asked them how they interpret the use of the term "guvment". I did not give my opinion. 4 of 6 without any prodding whatsoever said it had a racial (black) implication. Interestingly, the other two said it was in reference to welfare recipients. I know that 3 of these people were Obama supporters, one was McCain. I'm not sure how the other two voted. The two who assumed the welfare reference both were Obama voters. Draw your own conclusions. In my book if 4 of 6 see a racial tilt and the other 2 see a reference which could still have a racial tilt to many people (welfare recipient) Then I refuse to accept your condemnation of me for suggesting that you might have had at least a mild thought along racial lines when you made the statement. I refer you to your response to my initial questioning of your post...You ask how your reference to people sitting home getting their checks could be interpreted as racial. Well...it's that word that you left out of your response that tells the tale. FINI
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
Well, what you really said
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Date:
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9/3/2009 7:15:40 AM
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From this last post:
"Then I refuse to accept your condemnation of me for suggesting that you might have had at least a mild thought along racial lines when you made the statement."
What you really said to him in the earlier post:
"I believe you are referring to "dem black folks"."
Far cry from "suggesting you might have had a mild thought". Instead a direct claim and said in an inflammatory manner.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Last comment
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Date:
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9/3/2009 8:05:44 AM
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Just proves you are friends with people of similar fixation. My, my but you are defensive about this one. Methinks thou doth protest too much. Get over your race fixation Archie. I don't care if you talk to a hundred closet racists that agree with you, I know what I meant and I know you are wrong as usual. Man, you are one dense individual.....and I'm glad this is your last comment because it is not worth the effort to type it.
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