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| Name: |
Barneget
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| Subject: |
This spells BIG TROUBLE 4 us
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Date:
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9/10/2009 10:13:26 PM
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Copied these news articles from The Columbus Ledger. Tried to
Wednesday, Sep. 09, 2009
Army captain files suit over Obama’s citizenship status; Orly Taitz representing soldier
Connie Rhodes says she or others shouldn't have to go to war until Obama's legitimacy is proven
By ALAN RIQUELMY - ariquelmy@ledger- enquirer.com
An Army captain fighting deployment to Afghanistan has challenged the legitimacy of Barack Obama’s presidency in a federal complaint filed this month, and has employed attorney Orly Taitz — a national figure in the “birther” movement — to represent her. The complaint of Capt. Connie Rhodes, filed Friday in the Columbus division of U.S. District Court, is similar to the July 8 suit filed by Maj. Stefan Frederick Cook, who sought conscientious objector status and a temporary injunction. Taitz represents both. Judge Clay Land, who will hear Rhodes’ case, tossed out Cook’s case in July. Land said the judicial branch shouldn’t inject itself into “political disputes” and shouldn’t get involved in hypothetical debates that haven’t yet become actual legal disputes. The Rhodes complaint makes similar arguments. “Plaintiff ... submits and charges that the current de facto president is an illegal usurper, an unlawful pretender, an unqualified imposter ...” the complaint states. “(She) submits that she cannot lawfully act under his authority, but that she is being forced to do so without any opportunity or remedial avenue whatsoever.” Rhodes seeks to stop U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates, the commander of Fort Benning and others from giving any order to her or others until Obama’s legitimacy is established, the complaint states. She also seeks conscientious objector status based on her doubts of Obama’s constitutional qualifications. A hearing on Rhodes’ complaint hasn’t been scheduled.
News
Thursday, Sep. 10, 2009
Army captain’s lawyer Orly Taitz summons Obama, Gates
By ALAN RIQUELMY - ariquelmy@ledger- enquirer.com
Summonses have been issued in the case of an Army captain seeking to stop her deployment by questioning the legitimacy of Barack Obama’s presidency, court records show. The summonses, issued Wednesday, are for defendants in the civil complaint of Capt. Connie Rhodes, who claims the president is “an illegal usurper” and “an unlawful pretender” and that she cannot lawfully act under his authority. Defendants include Obama, U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates and Thomas MacDonald, Fort Benning garrison commander. The complaint, filed Friday in the Columbus division of U.S. District Court, is similar to the July 8 suit filed by Maj. Stefan Frederick Cook, who sought conscientious objector status and a temporary injunction. California attorney Orly Taitz, a national figure in the “birther” movement, represents both. According to the summonses, the defendants have 20 days to answer the complaint once received; they have two months if they are an officer or employee of the federal government. Rhodes seeks to stop Gates, MacDonald and others from giving her and others orders until Obama’s citizenship status is established, her complaint states. She also seeks conscientious objector status based on her doubts of Obama’s qualifications. A hearing on the complaint hasn’t been scheduled.
URL: http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/news/story/832350.html
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| Name: |
Yankee06
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| Subject: |
This spells BIG TROUBLE 4 us
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Date:
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9/10/2009 11:05:56 PM
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-I'm not sure why this spells big trouble 4 us?
-There have been several birther suits before various courts over teh last year, and they have all been thrown out.
-However, ..that this series of questions still exist has only only one person to blame, --Obama. That he allows this to continue really ticks me off.
-By his own words, his presidency was to be the "most transparent" in history. The following is the "Manchurian Candidate" theory on Obama:
that he was born in Kenya based on comments from his grandmother and aunts who claim to have been witnesses at teh birth; that he was adopted by his mother's second husband, an Indonesian, and records do show he was enrolled in an Indonesian school as a Indonesian and a Moslem; that after he came back to live with his white grandparents in Hawaii, he was just Barry till he went to Occidental College in California where he roomed with two mid-Eastern students who told him that if he claimed his Moslem heritage he could get fiancial support and open doors to advanncement. To support that theory, from his Occidental time it is clear that he no longer was Barry but became Barrack, found funds to tour Africa and teh mid-eaast, had doors opened to Columbia and Harvard.
-Now, all this could be easily dispelled by Obama. All he has to do is let the original birth certificate become public; show teh passport he used for his trip to Kenya and teh mid-east; open the records as to how his college and law school bills were paid; allow his theses be made public. All of this has been allowed by previous candidates, nevermind presidents. I believe it is an affront to every American, and to his own promise of transparency, tht he doen't make this information public and if he doesn't want to do it cuz it's right, he ought to do it for no other reason than to make his opponents look the fools.
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| Name: |
GoneFishin
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| Subject: |
This spells BIG TROUBLE 4 us
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Date:
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9/11/2009 12:11:27 AM
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If the birth certificate were a real issue, I am sure Hillary would have made it a real big issue during the primary. It is a similar to those who refuse to pay income tax citing constitutional reasons. It is also interesting to read about a conspiracy and the logic behind it.
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| Name: |
lamont
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| Subject: |
Refuse to pay income tax?
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Date:
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9/11/2009 8:32:52 AM
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Are you referring to Charles Rangel and other Obama chronies? Shame on you GF.
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| Name: |
Summer Lover
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| Subject: |
Simple
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Date:
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9/11/2009 9:04:17 AM
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To dispell all the rumors and prove the birthers wrong, all Obama has to do is make his Birth Certificate public - correct?
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
My questions
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Date:
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9/11/2009 9:49:56 AM
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It seems to me that there is no controversy that his mother is an American citizen and its my understanding that regardless of where he was born he is also a citizen. Is there something special about the term natural born citizen in the requirements to be President that negates this?
Having said that, I am mystified why they don't just release the thing once and for all and why all the obfuscation? Its just a distraction from the larger issues. I also agree with another poster that there were lawsuits prior to the election that were dismissed but I think on technical grounds and not the merits of the claim.
It seems silly to me and the administration could put this all to bed by authorizing the release from the state. By refusing to do so it only fans the conspiracy flames. Is there some political advantage to doing this approach that I can't see?
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| Name: |
Yankee06
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| Subject: |
Simple
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Date:
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9/11/2009 10:07:30 AM
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Lover,
-Well, ...no; nothing is that simple in this game.
-During teh campaign, Obama's staff produced a "Certificate of live birth." They claim this certificate should end the issue.
-However, birthers claim that this kind of certificate is just a state document provided upon a person's request that shows info on that person's date and location of birth. Birthers claim that Obama provided the info to the state somewhere along his history and since he was a resident of Hawaii, teh state provided him a certificate.
-What birthers want to see is what is commonly referred to as the "vault" certificate of birth. This certificate is teh original copy made by the state based on info provided by the hospital where the birth occured or by the doctor if a hospital was not used. The vault copy has been viewed by the Hawaii state director of documents (or some such title) and reportedly also by the Republican governor of Hawaii (or someone from her office), both confirming that the document shows that Obama was born in Hawaii. However, the birthers claim that there is alot of other info on teh vault copy that is needed to put this question to rest, such as the name of the doctor, whom , if still alive, they want to talk to; the hospital, and other types of info as to nationality, religion, etc.
-Birthers claim that since Obama won't release this vault copy that there must be something on it that conflicts with the life story he has been telling. On the other side, those that believe Obama was born in Hawaii say that since Hawaian state officials have seen the vault copy and stated that it confirms his birth in the state of Hawaii that should be enough.
-I believe reasonable peple think enough is enough, this is simple to resolve, Obama should just allow the thing to be open to public scrutiny.
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| Name: |
Summer Lover
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| Subject: |
Simple
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Date:
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9/11/2009 10:20:36 AM
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Thanks for the explanation, and agree, if the vault document would clear this up.... let me rephrase, if it would prove his birth was in Hawaii, I do not understand why he would not DEMAND its release.
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| Name: |
Yankee06
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| Subject: |
My questions
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Date:
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9/11/2009 11:59:04 AM
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M Man,
-I forget the exact concerns the birthers have about Obama's mother, and don't have time to research it at teh moment. But thier concerns includes several intertwined story lines including ...her renouncing her citizenship when she married Obama's father, ....was she really legally married to his father,...and then finally a law that was on teh books up untill teh 1980's that stated that if only one parent is a US citizen (and Obama's father was not) that parent must have lived in the US for at least 15 years and that five of those years must be after the age of 16. The argument on this issue is that Obama's mother was only 18 or 19 when she gave birth so did not meet teh legal requirements.
-I might be off a little on dates and such, but I think that what i've said above is pretty close to reflecting the birthers' concerns.
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| Name: |
GoneFishin
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| Subject: |
Born In The USA
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Date:
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9/11/2009 12:04:49 PM
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In October 2008, and again in July 2009, Hawaiian officials reported that they had personally verified that Barack Obama's original birth certificate was in the Hawaii State Department's files:
State officials say there's no doubt Barack Obama was born in Hawaii.
"I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, director of the Hawaii State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen."
Fukino says that no state official, including Gov. Linda Lingle, ever instructed that Obama's certificate be handled differently from any other.
She says state law bars release of a certified birth certificate to anyone who does not have a tangible interest in it.
Both Honolulu newspapers published an announcement in August 1961 that a son was born to Mr and Mrs Barack H. Obama on August 4.
Do you really think the paper is a forgery??????? You may not like his politics but the guy is a Natural born citizen.
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| Name: |
Yankee06
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| Subject: |
Born In The USA
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Date:
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9/11/2009 12:26:32 PM
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GF,
-Don't get so excited. No one in this thread said they believed that he wasn't a natural born citizen.
-What the thread is about is the political thought behind an administration of transparency not providing public access to usually accessable documents and thereby letting these issues fester. What's the ponit of not letting the transparency be ...well...transparent.
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| Name: |
Barneget
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| Subject: |
Big Trouble
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Date:
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9/11/2009 1:26:53 PM
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Let me qualify this, I never served in the US Military, so my take is strictly a single civilian perspective. The trouble, as I see it, is commissioned officers refusing orders. The refusal is based on their oath of allegiance to our constitution. This act, this refusal to obey, will probably expand exponentially, within a very short time taking on a life of its own. That could be BIG TROUBLE for us, all of us. I don't think this would qualify as the change anyone was looking for.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Whoa there Nellie!!!
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Date:
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9/11/2009 2:17:10 PM
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GF: Don't pop a nut on this issue. Looking back through all the posts I see no evidence of anyone buying into the birther fixation. I think Yankee's posts were just informative vis-a-vis their claims. I think if anything, we are only mystified by his refusal to allow the original to be released as it seems the best way to throw cold water on this whole business. Will it change the minds of the truly paranoid? Not likely, just as the very thorough debunking of the truthers about 9/11 have not mollified nuts like Van Jones. But what it would do is allow everyone else to move on.
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| Name: |
GoneFishin
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| Subject: |
Whoa there Nellie!!!
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Date:
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9/11/2009 2:48:21 PM
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Martini, thanks for clarifying it. It is nice to know that we are in agreement that he is eligible to serve as president. I was reading too much into the postings.
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| Name: |
Yankee06
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| Subject: |
Whoa there Nellie!!!
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Date:
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9/11/2009 2:54:16 PM
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Whoa, again there GF,
-Did you say, "we are in agreement that he is eligible to serve as president" ....hmmmmmmm, that might be a little bit of a bridge too far! :-)
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Whoa there Nellie!!!
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Date:
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9/11/2009 3:23:51 PM
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I still don't understand why they don't put this to rest by releasing the original. As my gut tells me this is not an issue the only other reasonable conclusion is there is something else on the birth certificate that he doesn't want revealed. Maybe something that doesn't comport with his biography? Who knows, but until they release it the flames are only going to be fanned further. Will be interesting to see if the litigation (if it is not dismissed) can force the release of the birth certificate. Again, my recollection is the previous lawsuit was dismissed on technical grounds and this suit may be different. Don't know whether those kind of records are discoverable or not.
And on a final note. No, I don't believe he is qualified to be President, I never have and I never will......but not because of his place of birth. :-) Have a good weekend!
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| Name: |
Aqua Man
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| Subject: |
It makes a great Red Herring.
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Date:
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9/12/2009 12:38:03 PM
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That is why they do not put it to rest. It works for them politically to be able to point fingers at the 'birthers' as nut cases and and then paint all oppisition with that broad brush.
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| Name: |
GoneFishin
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| Subject: |
It makes a great Red Herring.
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Date:
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9/12/2009 1:16:05 PM
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Diversion????? Sounds familiar. Like Swift Boat? They are just taking a page from the Far Right.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Non sequitar
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Date:
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9/12/2009 1:39:58 PM
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GF: I really don't get the connection between a group that spoke the truth about Kerry's service and these people with a fixation on Obama's birth certificate. Since Kerry was making such a big deal about his service (John Kerry reporting for duty....whoever talked him into that line should have been shot) it seems to me reasonable to examine, especially with the detailed discussion of Bush's guard service. The Obama birth certificate issue is one so easily dispelled that it just doesn't make sense for them to avoid it unless they saw some political advantage to keeping the discussion going or there is something in the document they don't want the public to see. Just weird to me.
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| Name: |
GoneFishin
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| Subject: |
Non sequitar
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Date:
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9/12/2009 3:24:17 PM
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You say they spoke the truth, and I say they lied.
Of those who served in Kerry's boat crew, only Stephen Gardner joined SBVT.[19] He was not present on any of the occasions when Kerry won his medals, including his Purple Hearts. Gardner appeared in two of the group's television advertisements.
All other living members of Kerry's crew supported his presidential bid, and some frequently campaigned with him as his self-described "band of brothers". Kerry crew members have disputed some of SBVT's various allegations: "totally false" (Drew Whitlow), "garbage" (Gene Thorson), and "a pack of lies" (Del Sandusky).
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| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
GF you're wasting your breath
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Date:
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9/12/2009 5:06:12 PM
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This bunch would'nt know the truth if it bit them in the a##!
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Still a non sequitar
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Date:
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9/13/2009 9:41:28 AM
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GF, you are once again trying to change the subject. I still maintain these are two entirely different circumstances and represent a non sequitar.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Thanks again Archie
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Date:
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9/13/2009 9:44:11 AM
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for your brilliant input and another in a long line of insults. You know, I noticed you have been gone for a while and it has been pleasant on the forum, lots of reasonable discussion, good points on both sides, some disagreement and some agreement. But we can always count on you to show up, throw out some insults and degrade the debate. Welcome back......I guess
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