| Name: |
Kizma Anuice
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| Subject: |
SATURDAY MEETING @ NIFFERS
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Date:
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6/8/2007 2:42:26 PM
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I have been reading all of the materials about the meeting to be held at Niffers on Saturday. I plan to attend and plan to state basically as follows: (unless someone can post something which changes my mind)
1 The name of the organization should not be HOBO. There are many friends and users of the lake that are niether home owners nor boat owners. A particular group would be those people who camp at Wind Creek, who might actually out number home owners or boat owners.
THE NAME SHOULD INDICATE INCLUSIVENESS.
2 Until the issue of WATER LEVEL is sucessfully addressed, the organization should limit its scope and concentrate it efforts in obtaining an acceptable solution to that matter, first in the short run and ultimately in the long run.
3. Issues such as big boats, condos, water quality, marking bouys, etc. could tend to be devisive. THEY SHOULD NOT BE ADDRESSED UNTIL THE WATER LEVEL ISSUE IS RESOLVED.
4. The condition of membership at this point in time should be to sign a pledge that the person applying for membership supports full pool levels in the nature of those achieved by Mitchel Lake and Lay Lake.
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| Name: |
Pier Pressure
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| Subject: |
SATURDAY MEETING @ NIFFERS
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Date:
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6/8/2007 3:05:46 PM
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Why is it that you feel lake levels have priority over water quality?
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| Name: |
Maverick
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| Subject: |
Kizma Anuice
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Date:
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6/8/2007 3:11:36 PM
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See my post below under Niffers meeting regarding the groups being covered under the HOBOs association.
With regards to the Lake Level, do not think anyone would totally disagree with you.
However, the purpose of the organization is to be broad reaching and not narrowly focused on one single issue.
As if the group just focuses on one single issue then that would not be in the overall best interest of LM., at least in my opinion So I would think looking at having chairs for all issues ideintified would be in the best interest of the lake, such as, but not limited to:
Water Quality / Level
Shoreline Erosion
Boating Safety
Lake Clean Up
Fish and Wildlife
Membership
etc
etc
Then under each chair have area lake representatives to support the chair persons efforts.
Hopefully this might better clarify some of your concerns.
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| Name: |
hooks45
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| Subject: |
SATURDAY MEETING @ NIFFERS
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Date:
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6/8/2007 3:22:58 PM
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I agree that the water level must be the #1 item!!!!
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| Name: |
CAT BOAT
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| Subject: |
SATURDAY MEETING @ NIFFERS
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Date:
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6/8/2007 3:25:41 PM
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If that is the #1 topic of discussion, I think yall need to have #1 (the man upstairs) at the meeting. Because, without him, I just don't see the water coming up. Also, I don't think he wants to be called a Hobo either.
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| Name: |
augobbler
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| Subject: |
SATURDAY MEETING @ NIFFERS
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Date:
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6/8/2007 3:57:39 PM
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I hear that LTL and Bob are going to have a live debate for the entertainment portion of the evening. The winner will be in charge of morale for the next meeting.
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If you make water level the #1 priority then you are setting the group up for failure from the beginning. Water level is the #1 issue that will NOT be taken seriously IMHO. There are too many factors involved. I have stated my desire for a 5ft draw down, but I realize that that decision will NOT be made on what is in my, or ANY other homeowners best interest. It will be made on the needs of the entire water system of Alabama. Who needs what amount and when. I feel that with a five foot draw down coupled with today's technology will be sufficient for flood control. But I don't know that, but I can assure you that APCO engineers do.
It was posted on here that a HOBO already existed for folks on the other side. Why are we forming another? Shouldn't resources be combined?
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| Name: |
ALSCN
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| Subject: |
#1 Priority
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Date:
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6/8/2007 4:39:17 PM
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Would it matter what the water levels are if you were swimming in contaminated (sewage) water? Only the good lord above is going to be able to do anything about the water levels, at least this year... however, we have to make sure that the lake is taken care of and that any cities/towns/business ect. that are putting a hazard into the lake are corrected.
In other words, I actually agree with LTL on this one, if you use the water issue you are setting yourself up for failure and sound like a bunch of whining babies... you need to protect the lake and go after the ones who can be held accountable.
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| Name: |
Kizma Anuice
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| Subject: |
#1 Priority
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Date:
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6/8/2007 5:08:47 PM
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We cannot control acts of God. However, someone can control the acts of the guy who pushes the button on the turbine, or the army corp guys, who I might remind you are most likely responsible for the water system in N. O. not being able to hold up under hurricane conditions.
If you don't have water the you don't have to worry about big boats, condos or sewage.
LETS GET AN AGREEMENT ON WATER, AND THEN WE CAN DISCUSS THE OTHER MATTERS.
BTW god did not decide to draw 11 feet out of the lake last winter. and God did not decide to draw Martin to flow the Alabama instead of Logan Martin Lay Mitchel Jordan etc.
There are more stake holders on Martin than there are on all other APCO lakes combined, if you take into account those who use Wind Creek Park.
We should have the political pull to demand that the Alabama Legislature (I know that they don't control God or the Corp.) and the Alabama delegation in Washington to get the job done regarding water level.
If we can show that kind of clout, then getting ADEM to come up with some better standards for water quality.
WHY CAN'T MARTIN BE A FLOW OF THE RIVER LAKE LIKE MITCHELL AND LAY?
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| Name: |
Kizma Anuice
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| Subject: |
Kizma Anuice
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Date:
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6/8/2007 5:14:12 PM
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If there were unlimited resources, then I would agree with you. Unfortunately there are usually not unlimited resources. And further some of the issues are devisive.. I doubt that anyone is against getting the water level issue resolved.
Fighting about whether big boats are bad and whether condo's are good can only waste time and resources.
If you are running out of gas you don't need to worry about whether or not your xm radio is working.
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| Name: |
PikeSki
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| Subject: |
SATURDAY MEETING @ NIFFERS
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Date:
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6/8/2007 5:14:30 PM
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I won't be at the lake this weekend to participate but will be there in Spirit.
However, I might recommend 4-5 shots of Tequila for each participant before the discussion begins. At this point no one will really care and it will all work itself out.
Also, since no one likes the title HOBO maybe you should call it the Home Owners and Martin Organization? (maybe not)
Best of luck to you all and let us know how it turns out ! ! !
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| Name: |
Carnac
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| Subject: |
No HOBO Group
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Date:
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6/8/2007 5:45:12 PM
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is operating on Lake Martin. They disbanded several years ago. I spoke with their former officers about this and they have given their approval for us to proceed. They are also interested in becoming dues paying members of the new group.
The name isn't pretty but it sure hasn't been a problem for any of the many hobo organizations that operate on many of Alabama's lakes and on lakes across the country.
Everybody who attends tomorrow's meeting will be given the opportunity to express their opinions. I'm going to suggest meeting twice monthly, at a minimum, while the group is forming. The location may have to be rotated to accomodate those who can't or won't attend some meetings.
Times and locations of meetings will be posted on www.lakemartin.com and in area newspapers and lake-related magazines.
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| Name: |
Pier Pressure
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| Subject: |
#1 Priority
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Date:
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6/8/2007 6:00:25 PM
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Jordan is not a flow of the river lake. Their dam opens and closes daily to assist in recreational activities (Kayaking, Canoeing, etc). The Alabama river has about a one to two feet surge during these times.
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| Name: |
skiantique
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| Subject: |
#1 Priority
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Date:
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6/8/2007 7:14:26 PM
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Last time I checked, my pontoon was inches from the dirt on Logan Martin too. Not sure why ou threw LM in the mix with Lay and Mitchell. We're about to hit winter level already this weekend.
cf
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| Name: |
Lakeman
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| Subject: |
SATURDAY MEETING @ NIFFERS
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Date:
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6/8/2007 8:29:49 PM
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How can anyone take you serious when you choose an handle like that. Grow up.
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| Name: |
JohnGalt
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| Subject: |
#1 Priority
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Date:
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6/8/2007 9:15:31 PM
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Maybe at the next meeting we could get "the guy who pushes the button on the turbine" as a guest speaker.
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| Name: |
BoatsRFun
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| Subject: |
#1 Priority
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Date:
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6/8/2007 9:34:00 PM
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LMAO
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That would be really interesting since "the guy who pushes the button on the turbine" is really a computer in B'ham....LOL.
It is statments like this that make me not in the least bit interested in joining any group that will then turn around and 'speak for me'. As I pointed out before, idiocy is idiocy. If any group wishes to be taken seriously you can't have idiots in positions of power and making statements on behalf of the group I know most of you disagree with me so I will just stay away and enjoy what lake we do have instead of whining and crying about what we don't have. IT IS NOT APCO's FAULT!! You can try to put the blame on them if you want, but you will just be dismissed as idiots. Concentrate on water quality, not volume.
Good luck though, and I look forward to reading about the meeting.
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| Name: |
Smitty
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| Subject: |
SATURDAY MEETING @ NIFFERS
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Date:
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6/9/2007 7:58:58 AM
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CAT - This is one of your best posts ever......i am still laughing!
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| Name: |
Smitty
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| Subject: |
SATURDAY MEETING @ NIFFERS
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Date:
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6/9/2007 7:59:37 AM
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ok then....sounds like we are all in agreement!
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The Corps had been warning N.O. for YEARS that the the levees were not sustainable in a category 5 storm. The warnings were ignored and when money was allocated it was re-routed to other 'more pressing' issues, like welfare, and food stamps.
The legislature has NOTHING to do with the water levels (thank God for small favors). It is controlled by the FERC. Lake Martin was built as an impoundment lake and ALWAYS WILL BE. There are two run of the river dams just below Martin, go have a look at them and see if you can tell the difference.
As for ADEM standards, they are the same on Martin as on all other lakes. The biggest difference is that Martin is so high above what all the others are due to no industry upstream. So why would ADEM raise standards that are already being exceeded?
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| Name: |
JohnGalt
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| Subject: |
#1 Priority
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Date:
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6/9/2007 8:29:47 AM
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If your reply about the" button pusher " is to me then I guess you didn't get it. I was being sarcastic about the reference above. I agree that this situation is totally due to lack of rain and nothing else. Guess I need one of those sarcasm on sarcasm off buttons.
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Nah, I got your sarcasm. I was posting for some of the others who just don't seem to get it, and apparently NEVER will.
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| Name: |
MotorMan
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| Subject: |
#1 Priority my foot
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Date:
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6/9/2007 10:15:12 AM
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Kizma Anuice said:
*********************************************************************
"We cannot control acts of God. However, someone can control the acts of the guy who pushes the button on the turbine, or the army corp guys, who I might remind you are most likely responsible for the water system in N. O. not being able to hold up under hurricane conditions."
*********************************************************************** end.
The Army Corp guys have nothing to do with NOLA's problem. Money was allocated over and over for the levies. The Governor and Mayor spent the funds on docks for marinas, infrastructure for casinos, Canal street's trolley cars and other crap that had near term changes that kept them elected, but no long term levy help.
Now they want to get like $87 billion or an average of $2 million per family extra to fix things (again). They are trading on the dead to cover their blame and greed. Those levies were predicted to fail at the first high water event by the Army Corp. Only mistake was to predict it as a Spring food event and not a hurricane to hit first.
I agree with all above that to push for more water this year will make a 5 minute meeting. We CAN send a representative to Dadeville sewer meetings. We CAN have a "pick up trash" type of day. We CAN send letters to Interstate water people. We CAN talk to Marine patrol people about local things like rock bars, jet skiis going 60 mph near docks, etc. We CAN go to local planning meetings to stop growth without thought just for the tax base increase.
I have never, ever seen a person who wanted "his" lake to have more developement. Be careful what you wish for. I was on a committee in Wisconsin that wanted to slow growth on local lakes. They wanted to raise the lot size minimum to 300' x 300' from 100' wide only. I voted and argued against this. It was passed. As I predicted, in ten years there were 260' wide single family houses with not a tree in front. Only the rich could afford them. One thing I wanted was for new subdivisions of land to have shared docks. Instead of 4 docks per 200', I would have had one big one per 200' split on lot lines. I wanted limited tree removal, clustered housing, more green space. All were "do-able" things.
A writer wants to linit condos to four. "They take out every tree and scalp the land. " he wrote.
Hey, come back in a few years. My Wisconsin land looked like a bomb went off for five years after it was logged . Looks good now. A condo is a great way for $800,000 of land to have 4 units or $200,000 per housing unit. It makes it more affordable. By allowing more units, there will be more profit incentive. Then the whole building can be zoned out of sight with one dock and littile tree removal. Tree replantings and replacements can then be mandated. Enough for here. I'll leave some for the meeting.
Mountain man Jim Bridges left Colorado the summer he saw another white man; "too crowded". Lets leave the "perfect plan" alone and shoot for the "good enough."
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