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Name:   MartiniMan - Email Member
Subject:   Secret memo confirming lies about Obamacare
Date:   8/20/2010 9:23:06 AM

Apparently the administration is now telling their minions not to claim Obamacare will save health care costs as all the studies of the legislation have been telling us from the outset.  Now the strategy is to say Obamacare needs to be "improved". 

OCarter lied repeatedly about this abortion of a piece of legislation and the truth is out.  Americans from all walks of life still want it repealed by a margin of 60% to 36% and the more they learn the more they want it gone.  More HOPEless and CHANGE for the worse.



Name:   comrade - Email Member
Subject:   Secret memo confirming lies about Obamacare
Date:   8/20/2010 12:15:48 PM

Even if it was started today, changing the course of this battleship is now years away. If no one has noticed. many doctors are already limiting the number of patients they see with Medicare and particularly Medicaid......



Name:   comrade - Email Member
Subject:   Secret memo confirming lies about Obamacare
Date:   8/20/2010 2:11:15 PM

Here's the link:

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0810/41271.html





Name:   MAJ USA RET - Email Member
Subject:   Secret memo confirming lies about Obamacare
Date:   8/20/2010 2:50:24 PM


If this were a retailer, or an auto dealership, or a food chain, it would be classified as bait-and-switch.  But, this is our government and what is illegal for private citizens, is not necessarily illegal for the imperial government.  After all, they know better than we, what is good for us.

Have you ever been outside and said to yourself, "It's going to rain.  I can smell it coming."

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." 
   -  Thomas Jefferson





Name:   MartiniMan - Email Member
Subject:   Interesting factoid
Date:   8/20/2010 3:29:32 PM

Had OCarter not lied about Obamacare it would have been required to have a sunset provision per current Federal law.  Because of the lie it will not automatically sunset.  It must be repealed.



Name:   MrHodja - Email Member
Subject:   Interesting factoid
Date:   8/20/2010 4:09:35 PM

Don't quite follow you.  Please simplify for us simpletons...:>)



Name:   GoneFishin - Email Member
Subject:   Many Who Oppose
Date:   8/20/2010 4:46:45 PM

Many who oppose fall into a greed category as this group ""Women in particular are concerned that health care law will mean less provider availability — scarcity an issue." The factoid is I have coverage so screw you. I don't support all elements of the plan but tell me how you would get pre exisitng conditions covered without a very high percent of the population being covered? It is easy to say we need a plan that covers pre exisiting. No one will argue with that but the argument against it breaks down when asked for specifics on accomplishing that without a requirement of coverage. I read an interesting article that hospitals are getting higher defaults from patients covered by insurance. Plans are increasing to higher deductibles and patients are unable to afford the deductibles. I have coverage so why do I really care???????



Name:   comrade - Email Member
Subject:   Many Who Oppose
Date:   8/20/2010 5:07:02 PM

So when the day comes that the requirement for a physician's medical license is acceptance of the state determined compensation for service (as is the case in MA, thanks to Mitt), how many doctors do you think will around to wait on you? Obviously only the non-greedy ones. Wonder how that would shake out applied to plumbers and salesmmen? 



Name:   Summer Lover - Email Member
Subject:   Many Who Oppose
Date:   8/20/2010 5:07:34 PM

Provider availability WILL be an issue, and when our doctors go on strike as they do in Europe - what happens? And although I too disagree with "forced coverage", you are absolutely right about pre-existing conditions being a deal breaker. Someone without coverage could be diagnosed with an operable condition, elect coverage for the month of the surgery, then drop the insurance after they are "fixed up". WE still end up paying for it because the insurance companies will all be bankrupt because they ask for "unreasonable" rate increases that are denied by our caring Government - see Massachusetts.



Name:   MAJ USA RET - Email Member
Subject:   Total Cost of Obamacare
Date:   8/20/2010 5:21:56 PM


If one is overweight and out of shape, on cholesterol and/or heart medication and/or diabetes treatment… if one thinks that a rounded meal comes in a bucket from KFC… if one thinks that NASCAR and the WWF are sporting events… if one’s beverage of choice is a six-pack of beer… if the one’s answer to “would you like to biggie size that?” is “yes!”  Then such a person needs to have Obamacare because his or her health care costs need to underwritten by those who…

 

…are not overweight, don’t smoke, eat a proper diet without resorting to gluttony… who exercise regularly, are not on life-sustaining medications, and don’t have diabetes.

 

You see, it’s necessary for the payments of the healthy to cover the healthcare costs of the unhealthy. 

 

A gluttonous and sedentary lifestyle is an elected pre-existing condition.





Name:   comrade - Email Member
Subject:   Total Cost of Obamacare
Date:   8/20/2010 6:17:11 PM

Need to be careful with your list - not everything on it is "preventable" (diabetes, hypercholesterolemia, etc)  If the criterion is nothing should be covered if I don't have it, you are going to die sooner than you might think.
Now, if you truly value your health and are willing to pay for it, I'm sure there are many doctors who will take cash... the trouble is that the government will probably make that illegal too, and you'll have to get the birth control pills and Viagra from some unmarked door in a dark alley.



Name:   Barneget - Email Member
Subject:   Many Who Oppose
Date:   8/21/2010 10:23:35 AM

GF, your thoughts almost hit the target, but landed on the wall to the left. "Many who oppose fall into a greed category ....I have coverage so why do I really care??????? " Your opening line is probably the most accurate. Many who oppose are paying their own way, many who oppose recognize there are costs associated with most EVERYTHING, many who oppose make responsible decisions related to providing necessities as it relates to the health and welfare of their families, many who oppose, when faced with deciding whether to pay for healthcare or say entertainment (e,g, movies, sporting events, cable tv, cell phones and accessories, twenny fo's) will choose paying for healthcare. As for pre-existing, most group plans had a 1 year wait before costs associated with the condition would be covered. I do have coverage, I do care about my portion of the expense asociated with uninsured. I really care that the new law was sold as a cure for my concern, yet does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to address that, and, along the way, through ridiculous business regulation, adds great expense to every American consumer. So yes, as a producer, I guess I fall into the greed category, greedy bass tard might be even more accurate.



Name:   water_watcher - Email Member
Subject:   Many Who Oppose
Date:   8/21/2010 11:02:20 AM


1.  there is no "entitlement" to healthcare.
2.  I want people that want healthcare to be able to get it
3.  I do not want government to tell me what type or level of care I should have
4.  I do not want to be penalized if I choose to have a "premium" healthcare plan
5.  I would not be opposed to a government program that an individual can purchase cost effectively (subsidized from taxpayers) that would allow people that can't get insurance or afford the rates based on a preexisting illness, to purchase coverage.
6.  such a program would have its premium based on a income of the individual.  If someone does not purchase and they are provided emergency care, their wages will be garnished, property taken.  Just like if you do not pay your taxes.
7.  it would not be available to illegals in the US that are not filing a tax return.  If they do not purchase insurance and go to the hospital with no insurance, they will be treat and deported when released. 



Name:   MAJ USA RET - Email Member
Subject:   Many Who Oppose
Date:   8/21/2010 1:36:22 PM


8.  There is no free medical care.  EVERYONE must pay something.

 

9.  There is co-pay for ALL medical care except where the patient is indigent AND THE DOCTOR validates that it is an emergency (flu, colds, broken-toenails, etc. are not emergencies).  NO free visits to the doctor or clinic.

 

10. Newborns to illegal aliens are assigned the citizenship of their mother.  Mother and child will be deported immediately on discharge.

 

11.  A BMI over 25 results in a 25% surcharge on health insurance premiums.  A BMI over 30 results in a 50% surcharge on health insurance premiums.  A BMI over 40 results in a 75% surcharge on health insurance premiums.  Being overweight is an elective condition which is a precursor to and aggravates medical problems (and the attendant personal hygiene presentations are offensive to the medical profession).





Name:   water_watcher - Email Member
Subject:   Many Who Oppose
Date:   8/21/2010 5:16:50 PM


All excellent additions.



Name:   comrade - Email Member
Subject:   Many Who Oppose
Date:   8/21/2010 10:12:14 PM

If we just accept number 1., then all the rest are superfluous. If it is not an entitlement, then it should be treated like other common needs: food, water, clothing, shelter, etc.... We are accustomed to seeking out and aquiring these things, and willing to pay more or less as we rank the relative importance of each of those items. When everyone pays their way in a (love this) "transparent" fashion, then it is much easier to live and let live, and maybe not hate fat people so much.......
So I vote to get rid of all federally provided health care.



Name:   comrade - Email Member
Subject:   Many Who Oppose
Date:   8/21/2010 10:20:23 PM

Remember: Good health is just the slowest possible way to die.



Name:   MartiniMan - Email Member
Subject:   Many Who Oppose
Date:   8/21/2010 10:27:26 PM

I really don't get your point GF.  Why is it greedy to be concerned about scarcity?  It seems to me that is a genuine concern particularly given the experience in other countries with socialized medicine and this country with doctors that won't accept Medicare patients.  It is inarguable that socialized medicine leads to rationing as it has everywhere its been tried.

I agree that the issue of coverage of pre-existing conditions is a particularly vexing problem as is portability.  But it is clear that the promises that Obamacare would solve all these problems, reduce health care costs and reduce the deficit were out and out lies and those of us that opposed it from day one knew it.  The real question in my mind was why instead of tackling the problems like portability, pre-existing conditions and the ability to buy health insurance across state lines they went for what was and continues to be a very unpopular piece of legislation that a majority of Americans want repealed?  And they lied to get it passed as a permanent piece of legislation.  I would think you of all people would be outraged but you seem to be selective in your outrage.

Those of us who currently have insurance insurance are concerned about these issues and could support reasonable legislation to remedy them.  What we cannot support is a complete government takeover of 1/6th or our economy, especially when we look at the disastrous results of Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Fannie, Freddie and on and on.  I seriously doubt you would mindlessly turn over your retirement funds to Bernie Madoff and yet you seem willing to turn over something as important as your health care the government.  Just doesn't make sense to me.







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