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Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Another Correct BO Prediction
Date:	3/10/2009 8:33:58 AM

As predicted by myself and the hapless Joe Biden, one of the axis of evil parties (North Korea) is taking aggressive action toward the U.S. Not only do they plan to fire a missile and place a satellite in orbit but they have now cut off the hotline between the U.S. and their country. They are also massing troops at the border with South Korea. None of this is a surprise given the Messiah's statements and his nearly immediate retreat from Iraq, pledges to reduce military spending, offering to give up our missile defense for concessions from Russia (probably one of the few nuclear-armed nations that wouldn't attack us), his reaching out to Cuba, and on and on. This is a test for the so far completely incompetent administration that has not done one thing right.

So how will the Messiah react? My prediction is he will talk tough and then fold like a cheap suit and offer all sorts of concessions to this two bit dictator who is starving his own people. Look for South Korea to be swallowed by the north in the next 2-4 years. Does anyone in their right mind believe Kim Jong Mentally Ill would have screwed with John McCain?

Iran and their diminutive wack job leader are next. HOPEless and CHANGE for the worse........

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Another Correct BO Prediction
Date:	3/10/2009 9:49:02 AM

And has anyone else noted the spike in car and suicide bombings in Iraq? The insurgents were apparently just biding their time, waiting for The Anointed One to turn tail and run.

Name:	water_watcher -	Reply
Subject:	Another Correct BO Prediction
Date:	3/10/2009 11:02:53 AM

It was so clear that was what would happen. Not all the great work that has been done to free the people and create a democracy may be lost. I am sure there will be some liberals that will say so what it is not our country. But they forget that it is related to our national security. Yes partly do to oil ... but not to worry, everyone will have a wind mill at their home soon and that will solve all our energy needs.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Exactly what
Date:	3/10/2009 2:26:20 PM

have we gotten out of Iraq vis a vis oil? While we have been in Iraq the price of oil soars and we were paying $4 a gallon, while Iraq signed a billion dollar oil deal with China.

Sorry to disappoint you, but there has never been any chance of a democracy in Iraq. Historically, they are not a democratic people, their roots are not in Western culture. They are a tribal people. I don't know if you have ever been to the Middle East, but I have been there a number of times since I was a Middle East desk officer. I didn't go to Iraq, but I have been to Kuwait, Saudi, and other countries on the Arabian Pennisula. The Arab mind does not work the same as a Westerner. Like Manyana in Spainish, En Shalaa in Arabic just means "not today". Maybe it will happen, if Allah will wills it.

I hate to even say this here, because no doubt that someone will call me a racist, but putting a democracy in the Middle East was thought up by Jewish Intellectual Policy Wonks, named Pearl, Wolfowitz, Feith (among others. In fact, a couple of them were actually Israeli lobbyists). They had written extensively about it. I've heard other Jewish people refer to Feith as a "Zionist".
There were many political agendas involved in our going into Iraq, but none of them had to do with US National Security. That was just how they sold it to the American people. You can't point to one thing about Iraq that threatened US national security.
Now Afghanistan, Yes, I'd agree that the Taliban allowing Terrorist Training camps posed a threat. But then, we also know they they have them in Sudan, but we're never bombed Sudan have we?

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	And PS
Date:	3/10/2009 2:27:45 PM

I don't think it out of the realm of possiblity that Iraq will have a civil war and maybe end up a partitioned state.

Name:	water_watcher -	Reply
Subject:	Exactly what
Date:	3/10/2009 3:22:52 PM

I don't know since I am not an oild importer. But they are a major producer that supplies the world. If they signed a contract with China great, that means less oil China will purchase elsewhere that other countries buy. If we were allowed to drill for our own resources where the proven reservse are that would make a difference, then we would not even be having this discussion AND we would be creating jobs and keeping our dollars in the US rather than exporting them. BTW it would not just be the oil company jobs either ... think of the suppliers, etc, etc.

As for "if" tehre could be a democracy in the middle east and specifically Iraq .... it sure seems the people of Iraq like that and want that. They get better election turn outs than we do in the US.

There were so many benefits to the war in Iraq beyond oil. Lets start with the 300,000 people that were killed and found in mass graves. What about women and their rights and freedom. That alone I would think liberals like yourself would be all over.

We were fighting and chasing terrorist cells so they could not organize to attack us again. I believe the war did keep us safe and no one said it would be easy to destroy and weaken terrorist networks. I hope we do not have any further attacks, but I agree with MM you see what is happening in N Korea and as we pull out of Iraq it will just be a matter of time that training camps are set up again. Yes they did have them in Iraq as well.

To fight terrorism I do believe you need to hunt them down to keep them on the run and weak. As you pointed out that they think differently ... I do not believe all Muslims or people in the Middle east support terrorism. But those that take their relious beliefs to the extreme can be stopped in you can allow those that want to be free and have a better life rise up against terror.

By throwing up your hands and saying it can never be changed is a bit disappointing.

Name:	rude evin -	Reply
Subject:	Sorry Hound...........
Date:	3/10/2009 4:40:10 PM

but you are cherry picking your "facts" about the reason China was awarded the oil ontract with Iraq rather than with the US......don't remember all the details, but the Iraqis wanted to award the contracts to US oil corps , but the Democrats in Congress would not allow US companies to accept, cause it was not going to be a full fledged bidding deal....so the the Iraqis went with China. I'm sure someone remembers this news story and can provide the source and details.........I remember thinking at the time...d@mn this hatred of GWB is over the line, it's hurting the US competive position.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Exactly what
Date:	3/10/2009 4:42:58 PM

We didn't have terrorist cells in Iraq -- that is until Al Kayda went there to fight us in Iraq. Face it, Iraq didn't pose a threat to us. Afghanistan, yes; northern provinces of Pakistan, yes, even Sudan. I mean if you want to squint hard, you could say that Saudi Arabia is training terrorists in those fundamental schools; their people contribute to fundamentalist organizations and their government refuses to publically take a stand. But, they are regarded as friends and an ally of the US. I mean almost all of the 9/11 terrorists were Saudis, yet we didn't invade Saudi -- because Saudi is fundamental to US National Security.

As far as women's rights -- we didn't do a thing for the Iraqi women. They've always had more freedom than say in Afghanistan or Saudi. They are considered moderate for Muslims in their view of women.
Now, did they have human rights issues? You bet they did, but then so does most of the rest of the world including the US. But then, I've never thought that human rights issues were a reason to invade other countries. If the US did, then we would have invaded Africa, China, Burma, Saudi etc long ago.

Anyway, the plan was always for us to cruise through Iraq, being greeted with happy throngs and dancing children to sweep through Syria and Iran. Demented thinking. And I'll bet if you asked the average Iraqi on the street today, they would probably tell you that life is worse for them now, and they would like us to leave. Don't mistake photo ops for the will of the people.

I think that Colin Powell was right when he told Bush, "you break it, you bought it" about invading Iraq.
And don't forget it was Bush who decided they were a part of the "axis of evil". Once he said that, don't you think they were perhaps wise to try to seem bigger than they were.

BTW, you do know that Pakistan used chemical and biological weapons in the Bangladeshi wars, don't you? Yet they are a "trusted" (i.e. convenient) ally of the US.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Sorry Hound...........
Date:	3/10/2009 4:51:43 PM

Okay, tell me one benefit we got, vis a vis oil, since we invaded Iraq. Did we get any "deals" on oil from them? No. China is prohibited from buying certain things from the US, but I don't know if oil is one of them. It's possible that they tried to get a waiver from Congress and Congress said no. Besides our economic ties (them virtually owning the US debt) I know there is a prohibition from selling them defense articles and maybe oil is on that list too. Export laws between China and the US are tricky. There may have been technology exchange provisions in the US/China deal or perhaps there were objectionable offsets.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	PS - China/Oil
Date:	3/10/2009 5:03:53 PM

It appears that the WTO has a proposal for China to join they must make their procurement process transparent.
If I had to bet, I would say that the US was supporting the provision of the WTO that China must make their procurement process transparent (i.e., open to all WTO exporters) if they want to be a member. Not usual at all for the US to do that, and certainly not related to any GWB hatred. In fact, it's likely the WH under Bush would have supported such a measure.

I'm not s China expert or an energy expert, but I've vaguely heard about this China "transparency" thing before.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Another Correct BO Prediction
Date:	3/10/2009 5:17:20 PM

The fact that North Korea is launching a missile to put a satellite in orbit is not necessarily a bad thing. There is a huge commerical satellite launch market out there and if Korea wanted to get in on it (since it is defnitely a money making enterprise) they would have to show the commerical community that they have that capability. So I wouldn't necessarily be disturbed about it.

And massing troops on the border? Funny, I haven't heard about that. You would think that would make the news. Is it possible that they are doing a military exercise that they do every year? Just about every country in the world that has a military do military exercises as a show of force and to keep their military trained.

North Korea does a lot of posturing. Kinda like that Japanese lizard -- the international community keeps an eye on them because they are a rogue state, but the truth is that they are probably lobbying for rice or wheat shipments to their country. We don't trade with them for obvious reasons, but as I understand it, sometimes they put on a little show and we arrange for them to get rice or wheat to feed their starving population. Besides, China keeps North Korea in line. They like to be the big dog in the region.

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Well.........
Date:	3/10/2009 5:35:12 PM

I hope you are right, but....

You might want to read the news reports a little more closely. They have gone a bit beyond their usual bluster. Threatened civilian airliners. According to news reports put their military on full alert. Said that anyone trying to shoot down their "satellite" rocket would be committing an act of war.

And since when did that starving nation all of a sudden turn to satellite launching as a way to earn money....the R&D costs for developing a "satellite" launch capability are formidable and the probability of significant return on investment risky....why would they turn to that as a way to earn money? You can think satellite, but the much stronger probability is something to deliver a nuke.

I spent two and a half years in Korea, have been to the DMZ multiple times, and have toured two of the tunnels the NKs built under the DMZ. One of them was big enough to drive through. Believe me, they didn't do that for show.

Biden's prediction seems to be coming true...but is it the North Koreans testing him, the Chinese (with their manufactured incident in the South China Sea) or the insurgents in Iraq with their increased bomb attacks? Or maybe all of them?

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Well.........
Date:	3/10/2009 7:14:50 PM

I have no idea what N.Korea is up to. But there is a huge market for commercial satellite launches and China has a huge business doing so. If they can launch a missile and put a satellite in orbit, sounds like they have already made the investment in the R&D.
I just can't see them attacking S. Korea. What would they gain? I can't get that excited about North Korea, but maybe I should. I'm going to google.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Time Magazine Article
Date:	3/10/2009 7:19:34 PM

I found when I googled. Looks like business as usual for North Korea.

URL: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1883998,00.html

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Time Magazine Article
Date:	3/10/2009 7:59:40 PM

The real quandary facing the Big O is this: what if it isn't just saber rattling? What if Kim Jong Il completely lost his marbles as a result of the stroke?

One thing I learned regarding logic and reason in Korea is that it doesn't follow the same logic and reason you and I might abide. The bottom line is that there ain't a danmed thing you or I can do to influence the situation but pray that it is all a game to see what they can embezzle from us....

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	The scary thing
Date:	3/10/2009 8:18:31 PM

is that the Chinese people, unlike those in the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, have no nationalist ties except to China. And the Oriental culture is leader-oriented. When we were in Korea we went once to the Yoido Full Gospel Church - at the time the largest Christian church in the world with about 40,000 members. If you asked a member where he or she went to church they would not respond with Yoido Full Gospel Church, but with "Doctor Cho's church" (Dr Cho was the pastor who grew the church to its size at that time).

So, the point I am laboriously trying to make is that there will be no equivalent to "Mr. Gorbachev tear down that wall" with China, and with their sheer numbers and centralized control we may be in for a very bumpy ride, and China will agree to transparency only if it suits them.

Name:	rude evin -	Reply
Subject:	Sorry Hound...........
Date:	3/10/2009 8:20:46 PM

We didn't invade for oil..........just to provide freedom from tyranny to 50 million Iraqis and start another democratic outpost in the middle east!

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Time Magazine Article
Date:	3/10/2009 8:23:09 PM

From what I've read Kim Jong Il is a paranoid crazy man. I hope that he hasn't lost it. I've never had any dealings with Korea North or South, thank goodness, except to attend an Embassy Christmas party on behalf of my boss. I don't even like their food.

Name:	Freshwater Bay Girl -	Reply
Subject:	The News
Date:	3/10/2009 8:24:33 PM

I've found things on the back pages and only 2" with important news. Most did not know that Russia flew their fighter plains towards Canada when Obama was coming in for his first foreign visit. Canada had to bring their fighter planes out and give a strong warning to Russia about their air space. It was on the back pages of the paper. my hubby didn't believe me. We then looked it up on the canadian headlines and saw that our media just skipped reporting it to any extent. I do not trust the media as my full source of information.

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Time Magazine Article
Date:	3/10/2009 9:18:51 PM

Ah, you, the world traveler, don't like kimchi? Bulgogi? Kalbi? Mandu? Whaddaya want, roast beef and mashed potatoes?

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Time Magazine Article
Date:	3/11/2009 8:01:50 AM

Well if Time Magazine wrote it must be true. They are the real bastions of journalistic virtue. I mean just look how many times the Messiah made the cover during the campaign. Let's imagine that all of the sudden, now that he is the President, they have suddenly abandoned their sycophantic love affair and are now going to present any news adverse to their beloved leader.

Hound, I can't figure out whether you are naive or clueless or both. But the fact that you get your news from Time Mag just about says it all for me. Oh wait, you probably get the Wash Post, NY Times and watch cBS, aBS, nBS, msnBS as well. Either way it is hard at times to take you seriously.

What a hoot.......

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Time Magazine Article
Date:	3/11/2009 9:53:00 AM

Well, I sometimes wonder how you can run a company and have so much time to post such long "fact based" rants on the Dems and Obama. I do believe that you have "ODS".

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Time Magazine Article
Date:	3/11/2009 9:57:07 AM

Kimshi I can deal with -- I don't even know what the other stuff is. Meat and potatoes -- no, but there are other Asian foods I like better. I had some eels cooked in hot sauce that were pretty good -- and there have been some things I've learned to swallow whole, so as not to embarass my hosts.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Time Magazine Article
Date:	3/11/2009 12:12:25 PM

I work smart and have assembled a great team under me (by all appearances something the Messiah can't say).

How typical of a government employee to wonder how people can be so successful and still pursue their interests. Besides, it only takes me a mere few minutes to refute ill informed posts and it is a nice respite from firing Obama voters (fortunately we have so few of them in the first place that we don't have too many to get rid of).

Just imagine what it will be like when I sell the company and stop working.........

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Time Magazine Article
Date:	3/11/2009 1:38:06 PM

Hound you walked into that one.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	I think you are right
Date:	3/11/2009 4:34:57 PM

But they do seem to want membership in all these international groups and there are quid pro quos for membership. They have thousands of years of negotiating experience and they are a very patient people. It's been underscored time and again by various China experts is that they don't have a 5 year plan or a 10 year plan, but a 25 year plan.

And Geez, I hope they don't tear down the Great Wall. (smile)

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	I'm sorry you believe that.
Date:	3/11/2009 4:41:03 PM

Or maybe it is better that you do if it helps you make sense of it. My observation is this -- you don't free people from tyranny. When they get tired of the status quo, they free themselves.
There has been some interesting studies done about plunging peole into democracy. Doesn't usually work too well. Sometimes it's a process of different kinds of leaders. I think Iraq might be more stable with a benevolent dictator.
This morning on Morning Joe, Thomas Rick who has written a book about Petraous in Iraq and writes for the Washington Post opined that he believes that Iraq may yet fall into chaos.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Time Magazine Article
Date:	3/11/2009 4:54:04 PM

Yeah, but who really cares?
I wonder if his employees think he is a great employer?

I had 243 employees and I found they kept my work day pretty full. Of course, some time had to be spent answering idiotic questions from idiotic political appointees. Spent quite a bit of time meeting with industry too, so I could help them solve their technology transfer problems.
I generally pursued my "interests" on my own time though in short supply it was. See, when you are a government employee, you generally don't post to public forums your political views because you are expected to serve whatever administration is there honestly and objectively and apolitically.

MM shows repeatedly he has no concept of what government employees actually do. I notice he never really says exactly what it is he does when not holding forth here.

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Time Magazine Article
Date:	3/11/2009 5:06:48 PM

Maybe he owns a bar.....

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Time Magazine Article
Date:	3/11/2009 5:15:52 PM

Wow, now you are questioning whether my employees love me?!?!? How mean spirited of you, but OK, I'll bite. I actually offered to have you come over to my office so I could show you exactly how higher taxes cost jobs. The offer is still open and you can ask my employees if they like me. I suspect you will be very surprised given the very low turnover we have that I am well liked but who knows. Maybe we just pay too well. :-)

I probably spend about 30 minutes of any given day off and on lakemartin.com. I enjoy the banter and like to keep abreast of what is going on at the lake, not to mention skewering you on a regular basis. Keeps the mind sharp. Considering I work about 50 hours per week and set my own agenda and schedule I think a half hour per day is OK, but then again I am the boss. I even sneak out and play golf every once in a while and go flying in my airplane. Only wish I had access to government jets like Nancy Pelosi but there is a certain satisfaction to flying yourself around. Considering we have grown from just me to over 300 employees in offices across the US and Canada and with revenues approaching $40M I will take my own counsel as to how I spend my time.

As I have told you several times before my wife for the U.S. government (EPA Region 4) for 9 years. In my job I work daily and weekly with state and federal employees all over the country and internationally. So I sure as heck know exactly what government employees do. You however, as a career bureaucrat don't seem to have a clue about the business world. I try to educate you but I am a conservative so what I say doesn't seem to penetrate your ideologically driven mind.

Hound, you just don't like it that I have such a command of facts and an understanding of history and that almost every one of my pre-election predictions about the Messiah are coming true and are even worse than I had feared. Some day you may lose your pride and admit your vote was wrong......or maybe not.....either way my opposition to BO is looking more prescient every day. Well, I better get back to work so I can one day gain Hound's approval for how I spend my time.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	By the way
Date:	3/11/2009 5:19:42 PM

I am President and CEO so I pretty much do whatever I want. Given the success we have had I think however I spend my time it has resulted in the creation of 300 jobs in my company and countless others in the government based on the ridiculous amount I pay in taxes. I would say "You're welcome" since I paid for your salary and your gigantic TSP but I have yet to find a government employee that actually understood who pays for their livelihood.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	By the way
Date:	3/11/2009 7:49:16 PM

You truly are a legend in your own mind.

If you are as wealthy as you indicate, I'm really suprised that you ae not employing a team of accountants to lessen your tax burden -- or maybe you could follow Bill Gates/Warren Buffet's examples and start a foundation that really helps someone other than yourself.

Sorry, I don't find your "command of the facts" and your "historical perspective" and your everyday rants created only to point out how smart you are all that interesting. Not only do you have ODS, but I actually think you are jealous of him. He's probably around your age, and by gosh! He's the President of the Whole United States. What have you done lately?

And as far as what your employees think about you? Well, I suspect that a "master of the Universe" such as yourself gives them plenty to smirk about around the old water cooler. They know what you expect, and I'm sure they make sure they give it to you just the way you want it.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	So much for not attacking
Date:	3/11/2009 8:41:41 PM

I seem to remember one of your recent posts about how nice you were but you seem to really be getting into the personal attacks. Must have learned that from the Messiah, attack your opponents, or as Jim Cramer said "if the keep up the ad hominum attacks...."

Hound, I must have really gotten under your skin. I argue for my beliefs using facts and logic and to you that comes off as me being the "master of the universe". Nothing could be further from the truth. As a matter of fact, you constantly tell us poor saps that we just don't understand how government really works and we need to roll over and do what some beauracrat tells us to do as if they have some unique insight into the world. The fact is you and so many other government civil servants (note the last word because it has been ignored)have this arrogant, condescending view of regular people that in your view need the nanny state to take care of them.

As I said, come on over to Atlanta and I'll introduce you to the people that work with me. You can judge for yourself if they sit around the water cooler snickering at me. I think you will be surprised what you learn.

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	So much for not attacking
Date:	3/11/2009 10:03:40 PM

Hound take him up on it. There is a nice Nordstroms in Lenox Square that my wife always seems to hook me (and my debit card) into.....make him buy you a three martini lunch at one of those nice downtown restaurants. Y'all might actually get to like each other!!

And MM, exactly what is your line of business????

Name:	Swimmer27 -	Reply
Subject:	So much for not attacking
Date:	3/12/2009 11:00:23 AM

What did you expect MM? You know as well as I do that when libs can't compete in the arena of ideas (which is EVERY time) they resort to personal attacks. I even get the same response from my own libtard sister. Remember that NOTHING matters but your intentions, an only libs intentions are 'good'.....lol.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	So much for not attacking
Date:	3/13/2009 10:59:38 AM

I own a national environmental consulting company with offices in the U.S. and Canada. Quit a nice corporate job with a national firm 10 years ago to start the business with just me in my basement office. Grew pretty well until 2000 when I took a partner and since then we have started several very successful businesses related to the environment. Revenues are approaching $40M and we were listed on the Inc 500 list of privately held firms for three years of our history.

It's very frustrating dealing with people who don't understand what it takes to do what we've done, the work, worry and risks. All they see is the end result and devolve the discussion to class envy. I grew up in a middle class home in SW Pennsylvania (my Dad never made more than $36K per year in his life). Borrowed money and worked for college and grad school (the only one in may family with a college degree). And then left a six figure job to start out on my own.

I say all this because people like Hound can't understand my distaste for unnecessary taxation and overly intrusive government. I recognize government has a role to play but we have gone so far above and beyond what the founding fathers ever intended.

Name:	Jim Dandy -	Reply
Subject:	So much for not attacking
Date:	3/13/2009 11:39:00 AM

Sounds like a classic story of achieving the American dream. Saw a need, dedicated everything to fulfilling that need and got rewarded for it.

I thought that was what opportunity was all about.

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	So much for not attacking
Date:	3/13/2009 12:15:45 PM

Thanks for sharing. I too grew up in what is now considered middle class surroundings. My Dad spent a career with the railroad, working himself up to be Chief Clerk in the purchasing department - I never knew exactly what he made but it was somewhere in the range of your Dad's salary.

I admire someone who is willing to take the risks associated with starting a new career, and congratulations on your success.

From my vantage point you and Hound both have valid points.

There are many Government people who are conscientious, make positive contributions to the wealth and welfare of the country, and do not simply feed at the public trough. I have known quite a few. However, the way the Government personnel system is set up it is hard to get rid of the dead wood, and too often the Government workers just mark time - especially if the supervisor does not demand productivity and efficiency.

And, of course, it is the businessmen and women - especially the entrepreneurs, who are the engines that drive the country and build its wealth. Without them, there would be no taxes to collect and thus nothing to pay Government workers or to pay for Government-provided material things like street lights, highways, and (ugh) sewage treatment plants.

Bottom line from an economic standpoint seems to be that adding Government bureaucracy and workers will have an overall negative effect. Maybe it would temporarily reduce unemployment, but eventually the Piper would have to be paid -- and if folks like MM decide to bail just because it isn't worth it to try and make a living any more so that the Piper gets his "due", then who will the Government get their taxes from??

Nasreddin Hodja

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Class Envy?
Date:	3/13/2009 9:14:54 PM

I understand that you grew your company and no doubt you are justifiably proud of it. No one is trying to say that you aren't bright or hardworking or successful. I'm happy for your success if it is what you want and you enjoy it.

But often I hear you refer to "class envy" and I wonder if you can explain what you mean. I for one, have always believed that "class envy" is pointless -- because no matter what you have or how much you have, someone else always has more and better. And when there isn't any more to be accomplished financially and with acquisitions, then there is the "old money" vs. "new money" social distinctions.

So I want to assure you that there is no "class envy" on my part. I'm quite happy with the career I had, I left when I wanted to, and thanks to my retirement, my investments and a nice inheritence, I live quite well. I can afford most things I want, but quite frankly, at this stage of my life, I don't want so much anymore. I've been there and done that. I enjoyed it; but it is different for me now. I had industry job offers along the way, but I turned them down, because I was really pretty satisfied with what I was doing. The contributions of government people such as myself may not mean much to you, but I think I saved some large dollar value deals for some American companies with what I knew and my ability to work things out. In the last years of my career, I got a lot of satifaction mentoring younger employees and solving the day to day problems of our organization.

In my definition, class is how you treat and respect other people, not what you do for a living or what you have.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Good question Hound
Date:	3/13/2009 10:20:29 PM

What I am specifically referring to is the approach that George Bernard Shaw warned us about.....If you rob from Peter to pay Paul, you can always count on the support of Paul. In this case Peter is the Federal taxpayer and Paul is people who pay no federal taxes.

What liberals do is talk about how the rich need to "pay their fair share" and that the rich "were just lucky and won life's lottery". And therefore we Democrats, being for the little guy, have to raise taxes on the rich. Obama has this down to perfection. So while the upper 5% of income earners currently pay 80% of all federal taxes, that is not enough for Dems. So they use class envy (i.e., I envy what the "rich" have), therefore I support any government taxation scheme that takes more from the rich, especially if they will give it to me in form of cash, goods or services that I don't have to pay for.

But wait you say, many rich people also say they support higher taxes. Two comments on that truth. First, they almost always support the taxation of income and not wealth so it really doesn't impact them anyway. Second, the use of class envy is really the means to pursue perpetual political power. When we reach the point in this country where over 50% of working people pay no federal income taxes we are doomed. We are currently at 40%. Obama plans to take it to over 50%.

So right now the "rich" already pay the vast majority of all taxes and yet Obama/Reid/Pelosi want even more and are using class envy to garner support for this scheme. I could go on for hours about why it is the wrong thing to do but thats for another time.

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Good question Hound
Date:	3/13/2009 11:15:08 PM

There you go spouting logic and reason again.....won't you ever learn??

:>)

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Good question Hound
Date:	3/14/2009 1:34:41 AM

Maybe this is where my fiscal conservative side butts heads with my "social responsibility" side.

I heard that same statistic on the news the other day, that 40% of the people do not pay income tax. I have to say it took me back. That is a lot of people not paying taxes. And I think all Americans have an obligation to pay taxes, even if it is a token amount. I don't think that the top earners should pay a disportionate amount of their income to taxes, that is to say, to the point where it is a disincentive to earn money. I already pay more in taxes than some people make in a year, so it is not that I don't see that burden of taxes.

But then I butt heards with my social responsibility side because I do think those of us who earn a lot and have been successful probably do have a responsibility to those who have nothing. Not those who don't work and collect welfare and burden the health care system. But I think about the kids who are trying to get an education but live in the poorer districts where they deal with unsafe schools and no resources. and I think about the elderly who may have worked their entire lives and not have enough to live on. I really don't want to see people going hungry or to have people living in their cars or on the streets. I don't want to see anyone die because they can't afford a Dr. I believe in faith based and community based initiatives, but what if it is not enough?

I don't want to bail out people that have children they can't afford, or people who made irresponsible financial decisions or who are just flat out lazy. But a family who is wiped out financially because their child has cancer?

But, I want to see the government use my money responsibly to make a difference. Then I don't mind paying.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	We agree totally
Date:	3/14/2009 8:01:44 AM

You and I are on the same wavelength about this. To be clear, the 40% is working people who pay no federal income taxes. Everyone who works pays FICA, medicare, sales tax and most pay some state and local taxes.

This is where I once again drive home the point that most government should be at the local level where it can be held accountable more readily by their constituents and has a vested interst in the outcome of their decisions (i.e., they live in the same place). Local control also gives people more flexibility to move out of a poorly run locality without uprooting their lives. For example, even though I could afford to live in Fulton County I choose to live in Cobb county because its local goverment is much better and taxes are much lower. Before the depression and certainly before LBJ's great society most government was local. Unfortunately FDR and LBJ used a crisis or perceived crisis to increase the power of the federal government, often telling us these were only temporary measures which in time became entitlements. To be perfectly truthful, the change really went all the way back to the Civil War which was about federalism versus states rights as well as the elimination of slavery (and this coming from a d**m Yankee).

I am at war so to speak with the size and intrusiveness of the federal government and strongly believe it should be limited in both its scope and size. It is neither efficient nor effective at many things and should therefore be limited.

I also believe in the social safety net but I think you would agree that it has gotten entirely out of control. That safety net in my view should begin with family first (for example, my Mom only has social security so she lives with my family. I am grateful to be able to do that for her and believe it is my duty as does my wife). Where family is unable or unwilling then local churches and other charities step in. Where those fail or are unable then local and state governments. Finally, for the very few that fall through those cracks there may be a limited role for the federal government. This is admittedly an imperfect system but it is the most effective and efficient as history has shown us over and over.

Unfortunately, voters have been all too willing to cede too much power to the federal government. And why do you think Obama is proposing to destroy private charities by eliminating tax deductibility? The family is mostly gone due to destructive social policies (especially the black family) and now he wants to destroy private charity. He already knows local governments don't have the money to pick up where charities stop so all that is left is the federal government. Is it any wonder that study after study show that conservatives are overwhelmingly more generous and donate more to charity than self identified liberals? It is so much easier for them, and in fact they are smug about it, to spout class envy and propose ever higher taxes on the rich.

So liberals always mean well with their desire for ever increasing reliance on the federal government, unfortunately they do so with great damage to the fabric of our society and our long-term economic well being. We don't want to become like Europe in this regard because by every measure our way of life is better. Well, maybe the French have some better wines and the beer and struedel is better in Germany......

Sorry about the tome but you have engaged me on something I am passionate about and read, study and think a lot about. By the way, I did this one at home on an early Saturday morning. Hope you get lots of rain at the lake!

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	We got the rain
Date:	3/14/2009 4:28:15 PM

And plenty of it.

Tongue in cheek, I can agree with local administration -- and then I think about that story that came up a few weeks back about the Sheriff who was pocketing $200K a year by feeding his prisoners only baloney sandwiches 3 times a day (1 slice of baloney, 2 slices of bread, no cheese) until he found out that he could get an even better deal on corn dogs. Seems local law only required him to feed the prisoners, and that he could pocket any extra money that came his way from the food allowance.

Now I know, you're gonna say "what's wrong with that?"

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