Off-Topic: Definitions?centrist?middle ?

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	Name:	Yankee06
	Subject:	Definitions?centrist?middle ?
	Date:	8/25/2009 3:23:08 PM

-Based on the above posts, seems to be a need to discuss definitions, especially what people are throwing around about independents.
-As an "independent" I take a little offense at being defined as one who can't make up his mind, or goes with the wind, etc.
-So here are a few definitions as I understand them;
-Socialist: classic definition is one who believes that the means of production should not be owned privately but should be owned by the government. Since banks, car companies, etc are now seen by some as being owned by the government, that government could now be called, at least partially, socialist; and those people who like that idea and want to see more of it can definitely be called socialists.
-Communist: In a communist system not only does teh government own the means of production but it owns everything, there is no private property. We haven't got too many people on the left advocating that because our socialists still want to own things, it's how they get these things that is interesting.
-Statist: this is what a lot of people are now calling the present administration, cuz "socialist" has too many negative connotations in the minds of most citizens. A statist believes teh government, or state, should not necessarily own the means of production but should at least "control" it thru laws, regulations, etc., to ensure that the friuts of that production are directed/distributed to the benefit of teh state as the state's administrtion see fits.
-Independent: in our sense, meaning not belonging to either the dem or repub party, or completely aligned with the platforms of those parties. An independent is not necessarily a middle-of-the-roader or wishy-whashy as stated in some above posts. There are many kinds of independents, because their beliefs systems are more complex and varied, or at least stray out of a party box. For example, I'm an independent who is generally: 1)a fiscal conservative (just enough federal taxes for defense, interstate high-ways, social safety-net --but not kingsize beds, etc); 2) a national security conservative seeing the military to be used for defense and securing national interests, but those national interests are to be aligned with conservative politics, thus no foreign nation building and no empire building; 3)a personal freedoms liberal, I don't want the government in my bedroom or anyone else's, nor looking at my emails, nor listening to my phonecalls, etc. 4) a cultural moderate who believes as a society we should have a wide spectrum of arts, sciences, education that search for progress in many diverse directions, --yet understands the need for a self-discipline that protects our personal and national belief systems,... thus stretch our minds but don't view libertine excesses as progressive thought. 5) etc, 6) etc and so on
-Because an independent's ideas don't match a party platform doesn't mean the independent has not thought through all the pros and cons of an issue. In most cases he/she has done more independent thought on issues than have party members. Most party members are spouting party talking points within minutes of hearing them on news outlets, sometimes without ever questioning them; independents on the other hand, because they are often suspicious of both parties, have to usually figure out their positions on an issue by themselves. Whereas a party (either dems or repubs in this case) can't understand how a woman can be both pro-feminist and yet anti-abortion, an independent understands because he/she knows that while these two issues are "characteristically" similar, they are "essentially' different.
-So to recap, definitions that are often in the mind of the speaker are often different in the minds of the listeners, and often both of these are different from what's in the dictionary. ---so don't call us independents...well, just say nice things about us :)